[Poll-3] #7 BenSi vs #26 Ryro (Round 1) CIT 2018

Welcome to Round 1 (Group 2) of CIT 2018! If you are unaware of the tournament I invite you to get caught up with all the fun on the following link:

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/ancients-it’s-time-the-second-annual-coin-imperator-tournament-2018.320328/



I want to give a special thank you to the participants for volunteering to play the game. We have a great group of people here at CT.

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#7 @BenSi


JOHN II Komnenos ( Ruled Eastern Roman Empire 1118-1143 CE) Metropolitan Tetarteron SBCV-1945 DOC 12 CLBC 3.4.1
OBV.: Full length figure of Christ standing on a dais, bearded and nimbate, wearing tunic and kolobion; holds Gospels in l. hand.
REV.: Full length figure of Emperor wearing stemma, divitision, collar piece and jeweled loros of a simplified type. Holds in r. hand scepter cruciger and in l. hand gl. cr.
Size 21. mm
Weight 4.03gm

Price: $150.00

Why It’s Cool:
John II Komnenos also known as John the Good, ruled the Eastern Roman Empire from 1118-1143, his time of rule was filled with small victories of battles across the borders of the empire. He lived a good and pious life; he and his reign are normally forgotten because of being overshadowed by his famous father Alexius I Komnenus and his famous son Manuel I Komnenus.

His sister Anna Komnenus is also a factor in is anonymity in history. Anna was next in line to rule but her father favored the younger John II over her and she never forgave him for this. In 1118 she attempted and failed to usurp John II's throne and was sent to a monastery. There she wrote one of the best historical works on the time period, “The Alexiad,” and purposefully left John II's achievements out of it.

The condition of this tetarteron is remarkable considering it was an everyday use coin, a denomination used by the majority of the public in Constantinople. Normally these coins are well worn because they were used for everyday commerce for decades, long after the issuing rulers passing, unlike the gold pieces of the day (AV Hyperpyron) which were sealed in purses and were rarely used in public transactions.

This is one of the nicest tetarterons I have ever seen and I felt really lucky to get it for this price at auction.


John II Komnenos (Image from Wikipedia)

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#26 @Ryro


MACEDONIAN KINGDOM.
Alexander III the Great
(336-323 BC). AR tetradrachm
(15.98 gm). About VF,
countermark, graffito.
Late posthumous issue of Perga,
dated CY 27 (195/4 BC).
Heracles wearing lion-skin,
AΛEΞANΔPOY, Zeus seated left
on backless throne, right leg
drawn back, feet on ground line,
eagle in right hand, scepter in left hand.

Price: $170

Why It’s Cool:
The Hellenistic Heracles / Zues type tetradrachms in the name of Alexander the Great are instantly recognizable icons in the collecting community. There is a fierce debate about whether or not the portrait on the type should be associated with Alexander (or at least his features) or if it is strictly meant to represent a young, beardless Heracles. It’s not unthinkable that mints in cities that Alexander had attained hero, or even divine, status would purposefully model his features on the universally recognized coins of the day, both in his lifetime and long after his death.

If the portrait is of Alexander it is one of my favorite depictions of the greatest conqueror the world has ever known. When reading descriptions of Alexander you will read about his piercing eyes. Eyes as blue as the sky that could look right through a mortal man. That stare/glare, with a slight blue iridescence is represented chillingly on this coin.


Heracles strangling the Nemean Lion (Wikipedia)

The portrait is as beautiful an example of (Alexander) Herakles as I could ask for. A well-worn theme at this point, but this coin has a very unique style.

Perhaps even more interesting is the crisp Seleucid anchor countermark behind Zeus on the reverse of this coin. Presumably, the countermark was placed within a few years of the coin being minted. Antiochus III had decided to step up to Rome and was defeated soundly at the Battle of Magnesia in 190 BCE, just 3 or 4 years after the coin was minted. This defeat was a severe blow to the Seluecid Empire and the countermark could be in the context of silver needed to pay for the Seleucid war effort or even somehow associated with the massive indemnity forced on Antiochus III by the Romans.

As the death of Alexander was the dawn of the Hellenistic period and end of the classical, this coin shows the death throes of the Greek masters at the rise of Rome.
Like the heads and tails of all coins, this particular ancient anomaly represents several beginnings and endings and will always be a favorite when 1st introducing friends and family to my love of ancients.

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Remember that everyone gets 3 votes to choose which coin you think comes out on top in each of the three categories. With that I will open the floor to comments, pile-ons and shameless lobbying.

 

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Very hard to decide as it are complete different coins from complete different era's, but thats what the fun is about!

The Alexander tetradrachma is a quite common coin but the countermark makes it very interesting. The tetarteron I find a very unique coin, and I don't know, it looks quite pretty.

 

Great coins to you both! Such a tough choice!!!!

 

This pair reminds me I wish I could split votes when I do not feel there is a great difference between the two and give full vote when one is clearly better than the other. I also have to decide whether it is the coin or the presentation that I like. Bensi's gave us a very good photo with smooth tonality. Average Byzantine coins do not have a lot of eye appeal compared to average Greeks but this Byzantine is far above average when so well photographed. The only way I have to split a vote is to give two to one and one to the other so that is what I did here. That does not mean that I believed one to be a significantly better bargain or significantly more historical. It means voting is hard!

 

Bensi gave a nicely divided history of the person responsible for the creation of the coin and an introduction to the commerce at the time that would have used it. Two paragraphs well arranged. I really liked the family conflict detail. Ryro struggled with whether to talk about the imagery on the coin or the circumstances of its creation in c195 BC. Nice effort, but he just didn't quite get it together.

Ryro didn't really talk about what made his price a good buy, and the number seemed pretty typical. Bensi did spend time extolling the virtues of his coin in a difficult market. I got it.

Since I have a bias toward Hellenistic art style over the Byzantine, I had to focus on something more neutral, which was state of preservation. I have seen many Alexandrian tets that grade with this much wear. Not bad, but not particularly sharp either. However, from what I have seen of Byzantine bronze this coin is exceptional out of the gate. I have no idea what that does in the marketplace, but in a collection it is a standout.

 

These are getting harder and harder!

Great coins and write ups!

Erin

 

@BenSi very good photo; light is evenly distributed and the image provides distinct, hard edges. Like you said, very decent for the type. @Ryro I have a soft spot for Greek coins and history.... decisions, decisions.

 

I’m normally not a big fan of Byzantine bronze, but wow, that tetarteron is simply stunning! Great job guys, look at how close the score is!

 

Beautiful coin and fun write up @BenSi! Not my area of collecting so it's always nice to see and learn something new
Thanks for the feedback @lrbguy. Though I respectfully disagree that I struggled to get it together and appreciate the nice try, feedback is a gift and I take the diss with bliss
@dougsmit, thanks for the reminder buddy. You have got me dead to rights! I NEED to up my photography game. You can barely see the blue iridescence and that stare down that would make Tyson shake in his boots.
And thanks to all that are participating!
Good times. And biggest thanks of all to @Curtisimo!!!

 

SCORE UPDATE
#7 @BenSi - 61
#26 @Ryro - 56

This is definitely a good match and a close one to boot. I like how this one is unique in that every single category is being contested between the two participants with 3 votes being the maximum spread in any one category.

BenSi's tetarteron is absolutely exceptional in terms of the quality based on what you see. I also think that Ryro's coin is beautiful style and the toning is nice too! John II is interesting and BenSi had a great write up. I love the countermark and the connection to the Seleucid Empire on Ryro's coin and I think the write up was great on that one as well!... The bargain and interest categories have me at a quandary!

Just to show how good BenSi's coin really is here is a tetarteron of his son son Manuel I Komnenos.

Byzantine Empire
Manuel I Komnenos (AD 1118 – 1180)
AE Tetarteron, Constantinople mint, struck ca. 1143-1180
Obv.: St. George draped and cuirassed, bust facing, holding spear and shield.
Rev.: Manuel I crowned, bust facing, holding labarum and globus cruciger.
Ref.: SB 1970
Ex Sallent Collection
Write up:
A Tetarteron of Manuel I

 

Great attitude, @Ryro! I can totally relate towards the level of effort and thought going into the write ups... It is stressful and you want to do your coin justice and I know I felt high levels of my own personal internal scrutiny and angst when writing mine... You did a good job. You used some really emotionally powerful and visually-colorful language (ie, as blue as the sky, chillingly, death throes) as well, so kudos on it!

 

Wow! This one is neck and neck, and rightly so! Both wonderful and desirable in their own right!

 

It's going to be an interesting match to watch!

BenSi's images are superb and the coin is great for the type. The story is interesting too. Value? I guess I'll have to research that.

Ryro's coin is very appealing and of course the ATG-style tets are massively important in ancient coin history. The price was very low for the type!

I've shown my ATG tet dozens of times so instead I'll trot out some Byzantines which rarely see the sun. Both are of John II Comnenus and both are from a large group lot. I thought the first one was pretty good "for the type" but Ben's blows it away


John II Comnenus, CE 1118-1143
BI tetarteron, 16x18 mm, 4.1 gm
Constantinople mint
Obv: IC-XC; Christ, nimbate, standing facing on footstool, wearing pallium and colobium and holding book of gospels
Rev: IW DECPOT TW POPQVPOGNT, John, crowned, standing facing, wearing divitision and jewelled loros, holding cross-headed sceptre and cross on globe
Ref: SB 1945


John II Comnenus, CE 1118-1143
AE tetarteron, 19 mm, 3.2 gm
Constantinople mint
Obv: MP-QV, nimbate bust of Mary facing, both hands raised
Rev: IW DEC POT TW POP to left, QV PO GE NH T to right of John standing facing, wearing crown, divitision and chlamys, holding jewelled sceptre and cross on globe
Ref: SB 1946

 

@Curtisimo , it is hard to keep track which ones I have already voted on, and that problem will get worse as more and more pairs are considered. Could there perhaps be a unique number (sequential from #1) assigned to each thread in the title so we can think, "Yes, I voted on 1 through 6, but this is #7 and a new pair and that is #3 and a pair I already voted on."

 

Byzantines? LOL, probly 90% of my collection is BCE! Subconsciously anything CE / AD is MODERN to my searches!

But, alas, @John Anthony and @Valentinian eased a few of my Ultra-Modern Dollars from my grubby little paws to splurge on some Byzantines:


BZ Andronicus II - Michael IX AD 1295-1320 AR Basilikon 22mm 2.1g Constantinople Christ enthroned - Andronicus l Michael r labarum DOC V 1 Class VIII


BZ Manuel I Comnenus 1143-1180 CE Aspron Trachy 35mm 4g Christ Gospels Labaran globus cruciger Virgin maphorium SB 1966 scyphate


And Megas Alexandros Gamma is my man! (ALEGANDRON???)


Makedon Alexander III 336-323 BC AR Obol 7mm 0.51g Babylon Lifetime Herakles lion skin Club bow quiver wreath M Price 3744

 

As long as you're logged in, you can tell from the OP whether you've voted or not. If the results are shown, you've voted (with the items you voted for in bold). If the results aren't shown, you haven't voted. (Unless you mean: you'd rather not have to click on ones you've already voted on. Yes, it would be nice to have match numbers.)

 

Done!

 

Thank you!

How did this thread get to be poll #7? I can only find three so far. Maybe that is an administrative number for you. I would prefer an actual sequence number--sequential as the polls roll out.

 

#7 is the seed number

 

I don't find knowing the contestant number necessary or helpful. Is it just a March Madness-style thing?

Perhaps these title changes would make it easier for us (or at least Warren an I ) to keep track:

[Poll] #15 Jay GT4 vs #18 Milesofwho (Round 1) CIT 2018
becomes
CIT 2018 Round 1 Match 1: Jay GT4 vs Milesofwho

[Poll] #8 Bing vs #25 Roman Collector (Round 1) CIT 2018
instead,
CIT 2018 Round 1 Match 2: Bing vs Roman Collector

etc