Please what am I missing.

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Peter Economakis, Jul 30, 2020.

  1. Peter Economakis

    Peter Economakis Active Member

    Iv'e seen some "NGC" rated MS65 and MS67 and more 1950 pennies go for $15 to even $60
    All about the rare red key color. Is NGC just a over rated over priced grading company.
    I'm sorry if I upset anybody but I have a few rolls of 50's and even some 40's that I cannot see any difference.
    Bad pic but just threw it out there. All these are crisp front and back.

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  3. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    I too wonder about the high prices for higher grade, mint red cents from the 1950s. The numbers that astound me are the three and four figure numbers that registry collectors are paying PCGS graded pieces. I don’t think that cents with red color from the ‘50s and even mid to late ‘40s are all that tough. Coins were being saved by the roll in those days.

    You have to remember the grading and shipping costs for those NGC graded coins you are seeing. Once you add in at least $8 (It might be more now) for bulk grading, those who get the $15 to $60 prices are not getting that rich off of those slabs.
    NSP, wxcoin, Penny Luster and 2 others like this.
  4. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    One, on a $15 sale for a slabbed cent the person submitting lost money. Slabbing fees are higher than that.

    At such low prices, you are simply getting a certified example for your registry set. No one in their right mind would think they are rare, unless you are talking about the very upper tier of condition rarity, a game I personally think is silly but to each his/her own.
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  5. Peter Economakis

    Peter Economakis Active Member

    These for example.

    Attached Files:

  6. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    One thing about registry sets, you need every date, right?

    I like group lots. However, one of the biggest things a person needs to get through their head is value of more common coins. A lot of the price for lower priced coins is the "give a crud" factor. What I mean by that is a coin might be worth $1. No one wants to mess with selling a $1 coin, so they might want to sell 10 for $10, or if you want only one its $4. Just because a dealer's price is $4 a piece, does not mean 10 for $10 is a "steal". It means the dealer is charging $3 extra for the hassle of only selling one.

    Same with these things. The dealer had to take a BU roll, (there are tens of thousands of BU rolls of these things out there), go through the trouble of picking out nicer coins, sending them in to slab, etc. S/he needs to get paid something for this effort. Ignoring the cost of the coin, the dealer probably has $20 minimum in costs related to it, and some time, and slabbed late wheat cents probably don't fly off the shelves. So the dealer needs such prices to even mess with them. The profit from selling one of these will pay for lunch today, not a get rich quick scheme.
    NSP, wxcoin, Penny Luster and 2 others like this.
  7. Inspector43

    Inspector43 72 Year Collector

    With common date older coins (Early to mid 20th Century) I think a person can find very nice coins at very reasonable prices. In fact there are many still floating around in circulation that are fit for purpose. I, personally, feel that eye appeal is the grading factor. Unless you want to go to a local coin meeting and say "...mine is graded higher than yours..." certification is irrelevant. If you get a coin that you like for your collection and take good care of it you can always get it graded later if it is then appropriate. Don't change your hobby to a competition.
  8. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    Those are probably asking prices. You can ask any price you want. Did you check the sold listing to see what they are actually selling for?

    Just looked, there are a bunch listed as BIN's in the 18 - $20 range and the sold lists range from $14 to $18. That is for MS-66 RD 1957-D, the 1957's are $20 to $23.

    So say you sent in two rolls of unc 1957 cents and got them graded at $8 each (bulk submission) That's $800 in grading fees plus $10 handling fee, $28 return shipping and $15 shipping to NGC. Total $853 MS-66 is a high grade but say 30% of the submission make that level. Takes 30 coins sell them at $20 each that's $600 less 13% for fees ($78) you make $522. You are $331 dollars still in the hole but you still have 70 coins that didn't make 66RD. If you can blow them out at $5 each you make $350. So your net profit on the 100 coins, is $19. But I didn't figure in what it cost you to get the rolls in the first place.
    NSP, JeffC, wxcoin and 3 others like this.
  9. wxcoin

    wxcoin Getting no respect for 64 years

    Even with the large numbers of RD cent rolls that were saved from the 1940's and 1950's most coins in these rolls probably grade MS65 and lower. Finding nice MS66 examples is easy but once you go up to MS67 the numbers get very low for some dates/mm. My guess is most of these rolls have been searched for clean, nick free high grade examples. I always wonder how many unsearched original rolls are still out there after 60+ years.
  10. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    You never know. Someone on CT was talking about Jeff nickels once and said there are no original rolls of early Jeffs anymore. I happen to have original rolls of 38 D and S and 39 D and S in my SDB. Lots are in the woodwork. The 39 D was pricey when I bought it, but the others weren't. Lots of hoarders like me with piles and piles of coins.

    You could be right many of these hoards have been dissipated now. I know of a dealer 20+ years ago had bags of 40's and 50's cents in unopened bags. Maybe they have dispersed IDK.
  11. wxcoin

    wxcoin Getting no respect for 64 years

    Even if there are a number of original unsearched rolls/bags out there somewhere, what is the probability of finding examples higher than MS66? I'm sure there are original unsearched rolls/bags out there.
    medoraman likes this.
  12. Peter Economakis

    Peter Economakis Active Member

    Ok I paid about 75 cents per coin on 4 roles from a ebay seller.
    I'm 95% sure they were rolled new from the day. Yes I know ebay and unshearched don't go hand and hand but these were sold as 1950's only. Seeing comments here about how they are still out there and hoarded and available makes me think i'm correct?
    Ok I might of over paid a little but I like them.
    What I did do wrong is un rap the rolls and put them in plastic tubes. Yes I was looking for any odd balls or mint errors:rolleyes:
    I used vinyl gloves which I now see as a no no and between the plastic tubes some of the great shiny luster dulled just a bit on some.
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
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  13. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    Agree. If chasing the highest slabbed grade, it gets scarce above 65 on these, since production was pretty rushed. I was just responding to the thought that many have that the old hoards are gone. Many of us are still holding on to volumes of original rolls. There are more coins out there than what has been slabbed when it comes to coins from the 40's-current. Too many new collectors think if its not slabbed it doesn't exist.
    wxcoin likes this.
  14. Peter Economakis

    Peter Economakis Active Member

    They went up in price but the pennie's in these rolls have been always BU.
    Alot of later 40's but mostly 50's.

    Attached Files:

  15. HaleiwaHI

    HaleiwaHI Active Member

    Normally, when I see these in an estate auction, they only go for less than $10, and usually closer to $5. I think who ever is buying them in a retail market is either new to collecting, has a lot of $$$ and has forgotten the value of $$$ or simply has no clue of their true value as compared with their advertised perceived value.
    Peter Economakis likes this.
  16. harley bissell

    harley bissell Well-Known Member

    Some people chase the highest graded example of coins. With MS-70 being the top rating the bidding is fierce for under grades. Why I couldn't say. If you purchase the best known whatever date it will remain the best known for periods from one day up to forever. If you lose your spot do you have to buy the coin that beat you to get your spot back? I don't see the point and I don't need the "glory".
    wxcoin likes this.
  17. TonkawaBill

    TonkawaBill Active Member

    . . . I have a general rule of thumb when buying Slabbed Red Lincoln Wheats ...
    Slab = $10
    Red = $10
    Ms-66 = $10
    1940s add $10
    1930s add $10
    have paid less than $10 for many from 1959 to 2020 Ms-66
  18. Peter Economakis

    Peter Economakis Active Member

    No he's a decent sized family type thing ebay seller.
    He knows the game and yes I found out a little late with quite a few buy's from them.
    I didn't pay brutal prices but he made his I would say 30% on me on each transaction.
    Saw a few of his tricks of the selling game. He would sell 1000 "Unsearched" bags and for curiousness I got it for $99.
    He sprinkled in a couple silver quarters, afew mercury dimes, a few IH, those he got from opening up some true rolls of his. Then with the 30's in 1000 pennie bag and a bunch of BU pennies from his rolls, it was easy to figure out his ways. They were all very nice coins, no culls what so ever but still just a gag bag of VF to AU, BU penny's.
    He sells some nice BU Silver rolls but not cheap. Other rolls are planted with good end coins, and can get them at Auction or make him a ok offer but he does mention in his own way that those are the best ones.
    I have also seen his feedback and see he buy's coins which make it more noticeable that he rolls some himself. Not all rolls but enough. Like I said I truly believe alot are original from the day.
    I bought 2 times a 2 roll wheatback set for $22 and all 4 had 1 26S pennie so thats a dead give away.
    Yes it took a bunch of purchases and lost some money but not all that bad I think..
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
  19. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    I collect pennies also and for the most part they can be very reasonable in price but some slabbed coins can be very costly and over priced. I am very careful and use the Red Book a lot. Good luck
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