please help me with this silver roman coin

I hope you're wrong about that, as flips generally contain PVC, and the plasticizers used in making PVC are among a coin's worst enemies, causing extensive permanent damage if allowed to be in contact too long. Flips are generally accepted to be OK for short term use, such as transportation from coin shop to home.

Which brings up a serious question: Does he have 60 years of experience, or 1 year of experience 60 times?. There really is a difference, and age alone does not confer wisdom.

Don't be discouraged my friend - keep on reading and researching, and even testing if you choose - and eventually you'll find an acceptable answer.

 

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I actually use pvc-free flips, which most collectors use. That is usually the safest and most common way of storing them. As far as his experience goes, he is the foremost expert in ancients in western north america, so I do trust him.

 

I'm a bit wary of having coins anywhere near *anything* PVC.

Most collectors actually use those `unplasticised' flips. They are still PVC, it's just that the pvc wasn't treated with chemical softeners to make it maleable. While these `unplasticised' flips tend to be fairly stable for protecting your coins, if you THEN put them into a PVC page which is itself treated with chemical pvc softeners....well, to me that is trouble in the making. It's not a particularly good idea for long term storage (IMHO). So the watch word is `carefull!'.

For my `ancients' I use Lindner trays . No `off gasing' to pollute / corrode the coins, and the coins are immediately accessible (as I think all ancients should be). Most decent suppliers will stock them (or similar / different brand name). They are't expensive considering that you are getting both a display and a storage system in one.

Here's a `for example' supplier picked at random via Google just to show you what i'm talking about.

http://tinyurl.com/4y6bo

Ian

 

Amen brother!

I have two concerns with such trays for AU and better coins, one of which extends to any silver coin.

1. The construction of the trays allows the coins to slide around, potentially leading to hairlines and rubs.

2. I have seen the velour packaging used by the Japan Mint Bureau (and others) for some commemoratives cause very ugly tarnish.

 

I use flips that claim to be PVC free for my gold coins, and a few others...

Should I switch these out for something else? I don't want to move to airtites for everything...

 

First, my apologies for the length of this post. falling asleep before reaching the end would be understandable.

Slight lightening of coins on the highest point is often referred to (sometimes erroneously but not always) as `cabinet friction'. That is, that a coin becomes worn..... ever so slightly.... through the action of sliding loosely on coin trays as they are moved in and out of their old style mahogany cabinets. On many occasions what has been seen as `friction damage' is actually the exact opposite in that the `high points' are lighter due to their having been protected from the effects of long term toning (due to direct contact with the tray).

I'm not so sure about your concerns re Lindner tray insets causing any toning problems. I fully understand why you would be cautious though, having seen what happened with the Japanese product. I would be too! I can only say that i've not seen any of my coins tone as a result of their exposure to Lindner trays. I've used them since 1997.

My own use of these trays in relation to `ancients in the raw' is in the form of a stack of trays positioned on a shelf. It's a `static' feature. Sure, I move the trays out occasionally to look at my coins, but *always* with due care. The amount of `friction' involved is pretty well negligible and to be honest, I haven't seen any of my coins exhibit signs of wear through such activity over the past seven years or so. That does not mean I am being dismissive of your concern, but rather I would argue that potential damage can nigh on be eliminated just by recognising that potential and exercising due care and attention.

I also make use of Lindner trays for storage /display of dollar size silver proof coins. I always keep these in coin capsules (most are usually sold in such capsules). That way you get the best of both worlds, ie displaying the coin in the capsule on the tray (no friction damage possibility and extremely low risk of `toning'.

To me the biggest single risk to storing coins `in the raw' in Lindner trays comes from unforseen events such as having a spontaneous coughing or sneezing fit when you are looking lovingly over your coins. It sounds funny ...and improbable...until it happens to you

These trays are by no means a `perfect' solution. They are however a relatively cost effective alternative to storing your coins in products made with or from pvc. At least trays prevent damage to coins from that particular source. There are other alternative storage solutions but usually much more expensive, and bringing with them their own particular problems. If you want to be able to hold ancient coins (and I think you should...obviously exercising due care) then slabs and such like are not the eway to go. If picking up and studying the coins from all angles, feeling the weight and texture of the coin is not important to the collector and `preservation' is the key objective, then slabbing is probably the way to go.

Ian

 

There are so many choices to be exercised in making decisions on storage methods. How you collect, why you collect, whether you want `accessibility' to the actual coin as opposed to looking at them through plate glass in a humidity controlled environment......etc.

Every choice involves either suffering a loss of `utility' (such as coin preserved in a slab or at arms length) or taking a risk on potential damage (keeping coins fairly accessible but in flips or in the raw). I think the balance of utility / risk / cost factors vary from person to person as do the potential solutions and it all boils down to how the individual views (and values) their collections.

If your flips are indeed PVC free and you are storing these flips in a media that is relatively coin friendly then you should be fine. As I mentioned earlier, I think it's a bit daft to go with safe flips just to go and put the flips into a `plasticised' pvc album sheet. In fact, it's madness in my opinion, but at least a step better than using pvc flips too. .

Your gold coins are relatively immune from the damage that other metals tend to suffer from. I say `relatively' , because even gold coins contain other metals (usually copper by design, but sometimes others in the form of trace impurities). While gold will not react to corrosive agents, there is a (remote) possibility that `other metals' present in the mix could. To be honest, i've never seen this happen other than with one particular gold coin I have (a dutch 10 gulden) which has a dark spot on it. The dark spot looks more like a stain....excepting gold isn't supposed to stain.

Ian

 

Well since these posts have nothing to do w/ my original post, I sorted out the bronze disease w/ a professional, and I'm pretty sure my coins are safe the way they are, and the tray way is probably a very good way of SPREADING bronze disease, since everything is airborne. The way my coins are there is no way this could happen. I appreciate everyone's "attempt" at staying on topic.

 

I think one of us has a profound misunderstanding as to the cause and nature of verdigris. That IS verdigris on your coin and not some esoteric `disease'.

check out the full definition of verdigris here:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=verdigris

As an analogy, if you were to breathe in some mustard gas for a while the chances are very high that you would develop irreversible lung damage. That does not mean that you should thereafter be kept in an isolation ward just in case your `lung disease' somehow became magically transmittable to others. Sure, others can get the exact same lung damage, but NOT through contact with someone who already has it.....only by exposure to the same (or similar) environmental pollutant.

THAT (on a less dramatic scale) is the type of factor involved with the `verdigris' on your coin. It's a chemical thing. it is an environmental thing explicable through basic chenmistry. No more. No less.

You can start off with a problem free coin, but if you store it in an environment which has the relevant pollutants in it you will engender coorosion of the coin. Plain and simple. Verdigris doesn't magically `jump' from coin to coin like some parasite in search of a new host or like a bacteria crawling over the side of one petri dish into another. For coins to develop verdigris they have to have come in direct and constant contact with a corrisive chemical.

If you were to spray some coins with a fine mist of salt water, they wouldn't all necessarily show signs of corrosion at the same time. You might notice a spot on one coin.... then a week later spots appear on another coin...then another... etcetera. It may actually appear as if it's `spreading' but it is not. They just react differently based upon their own particular chemical composition (and any trace material that may have been on the surface at the time). Iit takes time for the chemical reaction to show signs.

If you find that other coins start developing verdigris, then whatever else it may be it sure isn't due to the `disease' jumping over to them. It should however be an indicator to you as to the effectiveness (or lack of) of your storage methods. I can assure you that storing coins in trays does NOT (emphatically) lead to corrosion in any shape or form. Storing them in pvc flips (whether the plasticised or unplasticised type) and in the typical plasticised pvc coin sheets inevitably does. This is due to them being in direct and constant contact with known pollutants. Sure the effects are not immediate, but give it time......

Hopefully the advice given by the professional you mention will prove sufficient for you. As they say in the UK `you pays your money, you takes your choice'. ;-)