Please help ID this 1654 silver coin

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by Neal, Jan 17, 2019.

  1. Neal

    Neal Well-Known Member

    I purchased this from a Paris street vendor nearly 50 years ago for about 20 cents. I still don't know what it is exactly. Can anyone help me ID it? IMG_9270.JPG IMG_9267.JPG IMG_9268.JPG
     
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. CoinBlazer

    CoinBlazer Numismatic Enthusiast

  4. Neal

    Neal Well-Known Member

    Why so? I don't have any reason to doubt it as authentic, I just don't know what it is. The vendor had a box of miscellaneous coins, of which I bought three. The others, a 1797 cartwheel penny, a 1721 British farthing, are unquestionable genuine, and the others I looked at but did not buy seemed all more or less common genuine coins.
     
  5. spirityoda

    spirityoda Coin Junky Supporter

    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
  6. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    When I see the large cross I always lean toward a Spanish Real, but this is certainly not one..... May I ask where you are seeing the date?
     
    Neal likes this.
  7. CoinBlazer

    CoinBlazer Numismatic Enthusiast

    IMHO, there is an inbalance of corrosion and wear around the coin
     
  8. roman99

    roman99 Well-Known Member

    Looks completely authentic to me.
     
    Neal likes this.
  9. Neal

    Neal Well-Known Member

    I thought Spanish as well when I first bought it, and believed that for a long time. But I cannot find anything like it listed among Spanish coins.

    The date is above the orb on what I take for the obverse. The orb probably originally had a cross on top, and the date is to either side: 16 on the left, 54 faintly on the right side. The 5 is a very old style 5, and the 4 is fainter on the picture than in hand.

    The cross on the reverse separates four emblems (left to right, top row to bottom): a wheel or shield of some sort, a lion rampant, another lion rampant, and a crowned spread-winged eagle looking left.
     
  10. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    I see that now that you pointed it out. What a head scratcher..... For what it's worth, I been Googling all manner of coinage from the era. A lot of the imagery appears British. Only thing that negates that is that each British piece I looked at from that period included a kings portrait.
     
    Neal likes this.
  11. Neal

    Neal Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the lead. Yes, the orb is similar. I believe the Z in the orb is actually a 2, which I take to have some bearing on the denomination. I have found similar orbs on several coins of the period, so what I thought would be a promising lead has not helped so much. There is not enough of the legend remaining to help, either.
     
    spirityoda likes this.
  12. Neal

    Neal Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the effort! I think the key is the heraldry around the cross, but I don't know where or how to begin looking that up.
     
    Randy Abercrombie likes this.
  13. wcg

    wcg Well-Known Member

    Off the top of my head, the wheel on the reverse suggests to me that it is German States in the Osnabruck or Mainz vicinity. Several city states used that symbol in their heraldry.
     
    Neal and Oldhoopster like this.
  14. Neal

    Neal Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the input. Not all that looks like wear looks like that in hand. Most of it looks more like damage or a poor strike to begin with. It has had a rough life, poor thing. And I suspect the silver is not of highest purity.
     
    CoinBlazer likes this.
  15. roman99

    roman99 Well-Known Member

    It might be Polish Lithuanian, the item in the center of the obverse looks kind of like this
    upload_2019-1-17_10-57-33.jpeg
    This design was quite common in northern Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Poland-Lithuania, and the Baltic.
     
    Neal and spirityoda like this.
  16. Neal

    Neal Well-Known Member

    That's what I have found. Thanks for the suggestion! I wish there were a good resource to check the heraldry on the other side.
     
  17. spirityoda

    spirityoda Coin Junky Supporter

    Neal and Randy Abercrombie like this.
  18. Neal

    Neal Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the suggestion. I already knew of the similarity to Swedish Lavonia. This is my Lavonian solidus from 1636 that was a gift from my son. The kind folks on CT (old49er) helped me identify it in February 2018.
    IMG_8268.JPG IMG_8271.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
    Randy Abercrombie likes this.
  19. Neal

    Neal Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the suggestion! Apparently it is Mainz, 2 kreuzer. Although they did not have this exact coin, I found the design, both sides, here: https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide...Kreuzer&date=&catalogInitials=&catalogNumber=

    Thanks everybody for all the help!!
     
    Randy Abercrombie likes this.
  20. wcg

    wcg Well-Known Member

    Great answer! I am happy you found the match. This is an interesting read on the "Mainz wheel". The images of the different coat of arms are quite interesting.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel_of_Mainz

    Here is the Mainz piece that led me to the suggestion. The obverse features a couple of the 6 spoke wheels. 1774-Mainz-doppel-obv-combined.jpg
     
    Neal likes this.
  21. Eduard

    Eduard Supporter**

    This one comes very close.
    Joint coinage of the Bishoprics of Mainz, Frankfurt, Hessen and Nassau.
    One Albus, 2 Kreuzer or Halbbatzen.

    Rheinland-Pfalz Mainz, Erzbistum
    Anselm Casimir von Umstadt, 1629-1647 2 Kreuzer (Halbbatzen, Albus) 1635, Mainz, Mzm. Hans Ayrer, Gemeinschaftsprägung mit Frankfurt, Hessen-Darmstadt und Nassau-Saarbrücken. 0.81 g. Reichsapfel mit Wertzahl Z, in der Umschrift die 4 Münzstände / In den Winkeln eines Zwillingsfadenkreuzes die Wappen von Mainz, Hessen-Darmstadt, Nassau und Frankfurt. Joseph/Fellner 414 b Isenbeck 136 Prinz Alexander.

    albus.jpg
     
    AussieCollector, PaddyB, Neal and 3 others like this.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page