Pillar dollars

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Daniel Jones, May 22, 2020.

  1. Daniel Jones

    Daniel Jones Well-Known Member

    Is it safe to but unauthenticated pillar dollars on e-bay? I just bought a nice looking AU 1768 pillar dollar from coinscape who has been in business 50+ years. I paid nearly $500 for that coin.
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  3. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes? Supporter

    It's safe if you know what you are doing.

    Judging by your question, I'm not sure that's the case.

    Buying from a reputable, long-time dealer is going to improve the odds of buying a genuine piece.

    However, if you can't tell a fake from a genuine, you should probably stick to pieces certified by a top TPG.

    Show us pictures of your new purchase, and we can give you better information.
    serafino and Danomite like this.
  4. Daniel Jones

    Daniel Jones Well-Known Member

    The link is ebay.com/itm/283880917394?ul_noapp=true
  5. Daniel Jones

    Daniel Jones Well-Known Member

    I do have some knowledge of how genuine examples look, but some fakes are difficult for me to identify.
  6. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    $500? That must be some coin.
    serafino and Kentucky like this.
  7. Edward Smith

    Edward Smith New Member

    The're are graded examples in that price range on Ebay, they'd probably be a safer pick if you're unsure of how to tell real from fake.
  8. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Yikes! Prices for these coins have gone through the roof while I was asleep. I see 41 bids on a crude 1733 counterfeit too.
    serafino likes this.
  9. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    What do you think of this one?

    1760 Fake Pillar Dollar O.jpg 1760 Fake Pillar Dollar R.jgp.jpg

    Before you fall in love with it, I'll tell you that it is a counterfeit. A collector put it up one night in our club auction. I flagged it and pointed out the problems to him (bubbley surfaces, chucks of metal indicative of a cast). He gave it to me to help combat the counterfeit problem.

    Here is another counterfeit of a 4 reale (a very scarce coin) that is more deceptive. I call it the "leaning pillar" variety. 1758 4 reales bad O.png 1758 4 reales bad R.png

    If you don't your coins, you can get stuck with fakes like this.

    Here is a genuine 4 reale coin.

    1761 4 Reales O.jpg 1761 4 Reales R.jpg
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  10. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    I was able to get through to your link on your eBay purchase. I don't care for the piece because it has been cleaned. Here is the type of look you should see on a lightly circuated example of these coins.

    1763 Pillar Dollar O.jpg 1763 Pillar Dollar R.jpg

    This one is in a SEGS certification holder. It has been dipped.

    1761 Dol O.jpg 1761 Dol R.jpg
  11. Daniel Jones

    Daniel Jones Well-Known Member

    Thank you for your post. I really like the look of both coins, the 1761 and 1763. I would LUUUV to own either, but finding coins like those seems real difficult, even on ebay.
  12. Daniel Jones

    Daniel Jones Well-Known Member

    I do recognize those fake features. In fact, I had to report one fake 1770 pillar dollar at eBay for having the wrong diagnostics, the little crown above the left pillar was the old style royal crown instead of the newer style imperial crown from Mexico city.
  13. ksparrow

    ksparrow Coin Hoarder

    while I don't see any obvious signs of fakery in the coin mentioned in the OP, I don't like the surfaces.. they look damaged, maybe by heat, and then cleaned to an unnatural brightness.
  14. moneditis

    moneditis Reales de a 8

  15. Daniel Jones

    Daniel Jones Well-Known Member

    Thank you for your observation/analysis. I agree with you 100%. The surface looks slightly damaged possibly from over heating and the coin was apparently cleaned, but still appears authentic to me. I would REEEEEALLY LUUUV to find a truly decent example like the 2 johnmilton displayed, but I have yet to find any like that despite searching through around 200 or so examples so far.
  16. Daniel Jones

    Daniel Jones Well-Known Member

    Thank you for your helpful link. The weight issue for many of these early Spanish 8 reales seems inconsistent. I had a few dealers tell me their tolerance can be off as much as 1.1 gram and still be authentic. Are they lying? Ignorant of the facts? Or, do they know something I don't? I don't know, but I am still researching and learning about these coins.
  17. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    I have owned the 1763 example for more than 20 years, and I bought the SEGS piece at a major show probably 15 years ago. I have not been in the market for the dollars in a while although I have purchased the factional pieces in more recent years.

    The Pillar Dollars are not rare. You should be able to find something that pleases you. If I see
  18. ksparrow

    ksparrow Coin Hoarder

    mine isn't super high grade, but I think it has a perfect look. XF40. pillar dollar ngc obv.jpg pillar dollar ngc rev.jpg
  19. Daniel Jones

    Daniel Jones Well-Known Member

    BEAUTIFULLLLL!!!!! The original toning and eye appeal looks fabulous! Also, the fields appear to be nearly blemish free. I saw another 1766 pillar dollar identical to yours at another coin talk site. In fact, I wonder if you are the one who posted this same coin at that other site about a discussion 5 years ago regarding a 1759 pillar dollar sent to NGC which was sent back to the sender unauthenticated for not being genuine.
  20. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    I would seriously doubt that tolerances would be that far off. For example tolerance for US dollars was .097 grams. Being off by 1.1 grams would be close to 4% and at that time that would represent a significant sum, especially in quantity. If you could get together back then 100 of them that were that far off, the error would equal about a weeks wages.
    Daniel Jones likes this.
  21. Daniel Jones

    Daniel Jones Well-Known Member

    Thank you for your insights, Conder101. I just took this coin to a local pawn shop to be weighed (I don't own a gram scale), and it weighs in at 26.84 grams. Does this guarantee authenticity? No, but at least, closer than others I saw.
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