Picks from my premium uncleaned lot

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Co1ns, Jul 10, 2020.

  1. Co1ns

    Co1ns Member

    So my lot of premium uncleaned coins arrived, I am very happy as the vast majority have way more detail than I was expecting from the sellers photo:

    IMG_0594 (1).jpg

    There was actually only about 15 crusties in there and even those weren't that bad for crusties.

    This is the first coin that's really caught my eye, though I have no idea what it is and it may be quite common. The portrait on the obverse is facing, as with Byzantine issues, but I think this is from the late Roman period as per the rest of the lot, if not late Roman itself:


    I'm intrigued by the oval insignia on the bottom right ... an eagle? Crusader's cross?

    Is this part of the design or some kind of bankers mark?

    Here's the reverse, I can only make out "NCO" and then maybe an "I":


    Eager to hear from anyone who can tell me anything about this coin.

    Will share more in this thread and elsewhere as they catch my eye or become topical :happy:

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  3. Orielensis

    Orielensis Well-Known Member

    Your coin is this type, but I can't make out whether it was minted for Theodosius II or Arcadius (many variants exist):

    Rom – Theodosius II, AE4, Frontalporträt, Concordia, Antiochia.png
    Theodosius II, Roman Empire, AE3/4, 401–403 AD, Antioch mint. Obv: D N THEODOSIVS P F AVG; bust of Theodosius II, helmeted, pearl-diademed, cuirassed, facing front, holding spear in r. hand behind head and shield decorated with cross on l. arm. Rev: CONCORDIA AVGG; Constantinopolis, helmeted, draped, enthroned, enthroned, facing front, head r., holding long sceptre in r. hand and Victory on globe in l. hand; beneath her r. foot, prow; in exergue, ANT(Γ?). Ref: RIC X Arcadius 100.
  4. Co1ns

    Co1ns Member


    Will have a closer look and see if I can work out the ruler. Were these types only minted in Antioch?
    Inspector43 likes this.
  5. Orielensis

    Orielensis Well-Known Member

    No, they were struck at a number of mints throughout the Roman Empire – from Antioch to Trier. This website, an online catalogue listing the different variants and mint locations, might be helpful.
    philologus_1, Co1ns and Inspector43 like this.
  6. Co1ns

    Co1ns Member

    That wildcard search feature is brilliant!

    Update: After looking through those search results, based on bust styles, I'm pretty sure mine is an example of RIC X Arcadius 99 feat. Honorious:

    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  7. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    philologus_1 and Co1ns like this.
  8. gsimonel

    gsimonel Supporter! Supporter

    That 3/4 facing bust type also occurs for Honorius.

    The bust style will not help to determine the emperor, although it might help determine the mint. The only way to ID the emperor is with the obverse inscription. You should be able to do this with your coin. Theodosius II has more letters in his name, so just counting the total letters can get you started. Both Arcadius and Honorius have the same number of letters, but the "O"s in Honorius tend to stand out.

    All inscriptions on bronze coins at this time took the same form: D N [emperor] P F AVG, so start with the 3rd letter and figure out if it's an A, an H or a T. If you can't determine the 3rd letter, move on to the 4th. Is it an R, and O or an H? And so on until you've IDed the emperor.

    From the photo, I suspect that the 3rd letter is an A.
    DonnaML, Co1ns and Orielensis like this.
  9. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    Looks like a lot of the usual suspects when it comes to uncleaned lots. Still looks like there are some potentially nice looking coins in there. Looking forward to see what they look like when they are cleaned up.

    Mind if I ask where you got them from?
    Co1ns likes this.
  10. Co1ns

    Co1ns Member

    I don't think thats an obverse match, the face of that bust is facing slighlty right, mine is front and center.

    Hmmm my photo or the one from numismatics.org?

    The one I shared from Numismatics.org three posts back was indeed Honorius, but RIC X seems to list them all as Arcadius. That was the only example on that website which matched my bust style.

    The obverse legend on my coin is not present until PF, so not ideal!
    In the spririt of treasure hunting; a multi-headed dog down under ;)
  11. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    Yes, it is. Probably it is just a different style and the impression given by the fact that your coin is still dirty.

    You can click "All images on one page" to see more specs from Mr. Esty's collection: http://augustuscoins.com/ed/ricix/type47i.html
    Valentinian, philologus_1 and Co1ns like this.
  12. Co1ns

    Co1ns Member

    Yep I see what you mean now, didn't realise he was grouping multiple RIC #'s on one page
  13. Co1ns

    Co1ns Member

    Emperor Cartianus? :dead:


    Mehn I knew I was having a mid life crisis, but midlife blindness is just too much :jimlad:
  14. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark standing on the shoulders of giants Dealer

    it's Gratian
    Co1ns likes this.
  15. Co1ns

    Co1ns Member

    Thanks Victor!

    Still trying to work out the ins and outs of the OCRE search @Orielensis shared above.

    I ran a search for *tianus but only came up with 20 results and none of them Gratian.

    Much obliged.
  16. singig

    singig Well-Known Member

    I recommend you to try another database to search for legend text:
    you have to replace ''U'' by ''V'' (V stood for both the vowel U and the consonant V)
    Co1ns, Justin Lee and furryfrog02 like this.
  17. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    RIC X is organized completely differently that volumes I to IX. They realized that there was benefit keeping things together when half of the coins you see are missing mintmarks or other important legends. We also have to deal with the theory that any coin issued in a mint controlled by Arcadius should be called an Arcadius even when the face and inscription is that of the other Augustus who was issuing coins from his mints also bearing both portraits. Below are my two coins. I consider them to be one Arcadius and one Honorius. Those of you who disagree are welcome to your opinion.
    ry7920bb0473.jpg ry8050bb2271.jpg
    Marsyas Mike, PeteB, Co1ns and 3 others like this.
  18. Co1ns

    Co1ns Member

    Thanks Singig!

    I like your way of thinking too Doug, if the legend says Arcadius and the portrait is Arcadius ...

    On that note, I've found a rather interesting coin in this lot, I am fairly sure this one isn't Roman.

    The seller mentioned there might be some Nabataean coins in the lot description, so I'm thinking this might be one of those?


    My wife and I are debating the nature of this animal, I believe it is some kind of ancient hound dog, she has suggested both a duck and a chicken.

    Who can settle this?

    The other side isn't very illuminating, though there's a crowned bust there somewhere I think!


    What ever the nature of this coin, like the first I posted, I am quite fond of it :)
  19. Co1ns

    Co1ns Member

    Any ideas folks?
  20. Theodosius

    Theodosius Unrepentant Fine Style Freak! Supporter

    I think it looks like a bird of some kind.

    That is a nice looking lot for uncleaned coins. Should be fun to figure them out.

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