Pick the counterfeit edge!

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Insider, May 17, 2021.

  1. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    The edge of two $20 Saints is posted. One is an older fake that is not very deceptive. The other is on a genuine coin. Question:

    Which is the fake - top or bottom? What are the three characteristic clues on the fake that are visible. Unless you have taken a counterfeit detection seminar or are read up on the subject, this should be very difficult. So clues...

    1. C
    2. F
    3. EM

    Keep it short. For example, if Weak Strike were one of the answers, the clue would be WS.

    If you don't know the word we use beginning with the letter in the clue, you can describe what you see.

    :oops: If you are a :bucktooth:, you may forget to post the image.
     
    Danomite likes this.
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  3. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

  4. micbraun

    micbraun coindiccted Supporter

    Top coin is the real deal, bottom coin the counterfeit.

    C = centered edge lettering? CF = not centered
    F = font? CF = wrong type
    EM = ?
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2021
    Insider likes this.
  5. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Yep, the font and star is different but in what way?

    C = one word
    F = Adjective or two words F L
     
  6. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    fatty?
     
    Insider likes this.
  7. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    jeffB, posted: "fatty?"

    Yes! A majority of older counterfeits (pre 1990's) had "fatty" letters and numerals. They were not sharply defined.

    What else does anyone see. What do we know about the alloys of 10, 14, 18 gold?
     
  8. longshot

    longshot Enthusiast Supporter

    1. Color?
    I would think different alloys would look different and lower puritys would tone more.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2021
  9. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    longshot, posted: "Color. I would think different alloys would look different...."

    Yes! Color is one of the most important factors when authenticating and grading a coin! In the past, when the counterfeiters were not using the correct alloy of gold, you could spot a fake "from across the room."

    What is the raised mark next to the star?
     
    longshot likes this.
  10. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

    EM is Engraving Mark. On the lower coin, there is a mark just above the rightmost star ray that looks like a stray/erroneous engravers mark.

    Also, on the second coin, the letters and stars are not on the same horizontal plane. I would not expect that kind of sloppiness from the mint edge die engravers of this era.
     
    micbraun likes this.
  11. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Publius2, posted: "EM is Engraving Mark. On the lower coin, there is a mark just above the rightmost star ray that looks like a stray/erroneous engravers mark.

    Also, on the second coin, the letters and stars are not on the same horizontal plane. I would not expect that kind of sloppiness from the mint edge die engravers of this era."

    Close enough for a term I coined in the 70's. EM = Extra Metal. It was used to describe lumps on a coin (not die rust) that were not part of the design. They appeared where they should not be as in this case. The cause of the mark was not important.

    Engraving Marks are made by a tool = tool mark such as the spikes often seen at the edge of fakes.
     
    longshot likes this.
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