Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
Photography Friday
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="Kaleun96, post: 7801852, member: 92635"]Lots of good comments and suggestions in here, I agree with much that has been said! I'll share a few of my own thoughts, I don't think they're contrary to anything that has been said but just reflect some of my experiences. If you're not into this stuff, feel free to skip as this might get long.</p><p><br /></p><p><b>Flash vs Continuous</b>:</p><p>I've gone back and forth on this one several times. I find continuous easier to control, predict, and more consistent (within a coin and between coins). Continuous can be easier and cheaper and is definitely the first option for non-photographers. Downsides are that you typically need "more" light, by that I mean a small flash can easily outperform a massive light bought from IKEA, for several reasons. Also, as mentioned, continuous doesn't do a good job at "freezing" the subject. Flash is great for this but very easily produces blown-out highlights in particular high spots on the coin that are extremely difficult to remove without great diffusion and arrangement of the light and subject.</p><p><br /></p><p>Something I've noticed with flash is that it seems to often resolve detail on the surface much better than continuous. This isn't a matter of correct exposure or vibration/blur, at least as far as I can tell, but a coin shot with continuous vs flash tends to look much better when pixel-peeping. I shoot with the below setup so can pretty confidently rule out vibrations that would be noticeable in this magnification range.</p><p><br /></p><p>What it may be is the angles I use for continuous lighting and the effect it produces. More on this next.</p><p><img src="https://cdn.artemis-collection.com/spai/q_lossless+ret_img/https://artemis-collection.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/DSC04432.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p><b>(Pseudo) Axial Illumination and Ring Lights</b></p><p>I liked the general effect Axial Illumination provides but had trouble with sharpness so I turned to what has been called Pseudo-Axial Illumination. Essentially you have the light source in axial alignment with the lens so it is directed down exactly vertically, perpendicular to the coin's surface. This tends to brighten the coin's surface, helping separate the devices from the field, while also removing troublesome shadows but providing contrast due to the geometry.</p><p><br /></p><p>As I understand it, light is hitting the coin nearly straight-on and because the light reflected back will be a function of how flat the surface it hits is, this means that curved surfaces will appear darker than flat surfaces. When done right, this tends to perfectly illuminate the devices such as portraits or legends but leave a dark outline around the edges. The very edges of a portrait or legend will reflect almost no light and thus produce this "outline", while even slightly curved surfaces will still reflect enough light to appear bright.</p><p><br /></p><p>I used this method for a solid year with a ring light (continuous, not flash). Only one ring light worked great for me, the <a href="https://www.laowalens.co.uk/laowa-led-ring-light-25mm-ultra-macro.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.laowalens.co.uk/laowa-led-ring-light-25mm-ultra-macro.html" rel="nofollow">Laowa 25mm Ring Light</a>, because it has a very small diameter but very powerful LEDs and limited diffusion, it can produce this pseudo-axial effect. It works well on most coins but I recently have started moving away from it due to the aforementioned issues with surface detail. I think due to how the light interacts with the surface at a near perpendicular angle, it obscures fine detail on the surface and can make them a bit plain looking.</p><p><br /></p><p>I'm now experimenting using a ring light but powered by a flash instead and so far am getting good results. To do this I 3D designed and printed an adapter to attach to the front of my lens for my flash that reflects the light around a cylinder and directs it down on to the subject. This gives me a similar effect to with the continuous light but that detail and sharpness I prefer from the flash.</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1339795[/ATTACH] </p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><b>Focus Stacking vs Single Images</b></p><p>I've focused stacked for a long time and much prefer the flexibility and detail it gives me at the expense of the time and effort. Focus stacking means I can shoot at 1/250s, f5.6, and ISO 50 without worrying about depth of field or not being able to tilt the coin or have trouble with high-relief coins.</p><p><br /></p><p>I have my own automatic focus stacking rig so I typically take 50-80 photos per side of a coin moving the camera 0.0625mm per photo and can do so in just a few minutes without any intervention on my part (once I've dialled in the start and end positions). Software to combine the images takes another ~10min per side of the coin and then I spend some more time editing the photos to completely remove backgrounds etc.</p><p><br /></p><p>I do this mainly for myself since most places I share the photos online can't always take advantage of the increased detail a focus stacked image provides but I now have my own website to host them so I can share them more easily at a decent resolution.</p><p><br /></p><p>That being said, if you don't want the hassle I wouldn't recommend it. I've spent hundreds on my current rig and many more hours programming the controller and designing things. You can get a commercial controller and stacking rig that is ready-to-go but it's not for those who wish to spend less time behind a camera rather than more.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>All being said, I don't think there's a right way and a wrong way, rather some principles and general tips to keep in mind and then a lot comes down to what you prefer. I could be happy with a continuous or flash setup, focus-stacked or make do with single-shot, tilting a coin or not tilting it, a white background or black, a ring light or high-angle light, etc. I could make any of those work well enough but because I like this stuff I like to aim for those small improvements that cost much more in time and money than the basic things that get you 95% of the way there.</p><p><br /></p><p>Some photos to leave you with, these were shot with the Laowa LED ring light and focused stacked:</p><p><img src="https://artemis-collection.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/1094_alexander_susa_tetradrachm_resized.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><img src="https://artemis-collection.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/1085_sinope_hemidrachm_resized.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p>And here's a bit of a zoom-in on that previous coin (a hemidrachm).</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1339793[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Kaleun96, post: 7801852, member: 92635"]Lots of good comments and suggestions in here, I agree with much that has been said! I'll share a few of my own thoughts, I don't think they're contrary to anything that has been said but just reflect some of my experiences. If you're not into this stuff, feel free to skip as this might get long. [B]Flash vs Continuous[/B]: I've gone back and forth on this one several times. I find continuous easier to control, predict, and more consistent (within a coin and between coins). Continuous can be easier and cheaper and is definitely the first option for non-photographers. Downsides are that you typically need "more" light, by that I mean a small flash can easily outperform a massive light bought from IKEA, for several reasons. Also, as mentioned, continuous doesn't do a good job at "freezing" the subject. Flash is great for this but very easily produces blown-out highlights in particular high spots on the coin that are extremely difficult to remove without great diffusion and arrangement of the light and subject. Something I've noticed with flash is that it seems to often resolve detail on the surface much better than continuous. This isn't a matter of correct exposure or vibration/blur, at least as far as I can tell, but a coin shot with continuous vs flash tends to look much better when pixel-peeping. I shoot with the below setup so can pretty confidently rule out vibrations that would be noticeable in this magnification range. What it may be is the angles I use for continuous lighting and the effect it produces. More on this next. [IMG]https://cdn.artemis-collection.com/spai/q_lossless+ret_img/https://artemis-collection.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/DSC04432.jpg[/IMG] [B](Pseudo) Axial Illumination and Ring Lights[/B] I liked the general effect Axial Illumination provides but had trouble with sharpness so I turned to what has been called Pseudo-Axial Illumination. Essentially you have the light source in axial alignment with the lens so it is directed down exactly vertically, perpendicular to the coin's surface. This tends to brighten the coin's surface, helping separate the devices from the field, while also removing troublesome shadows but providing contrast due to the geometry. As I understand it, light is hitting the coin nearly straight-on and because the light reflected back will be a function of how flat the surface it hits is, this means that curved surfaces will appear darker than flat surfaces. When done right, this tends to perfectly illuminate the devices such as portraits or legends but leave a dark outline around the edges. The very edges of a portrait or legend will reflect almost no light and thus produce this "outline", while even slightly curved surfaces will still reflect enough light to appear bright. I used this method for a solid year with a ring light (continuous, not flash). Only one ring light worked great for me, the [URL='https://www.laowalens.co.uk/laowa-led-ring-light-25mm-ultra-macro.html']Laowa 25mm Ring Light[/URL], because it has a very small diameter but very powerful LEDs and limited diffusion, it can produce this pseudo-axial effect. It works well on most coins but I recently have started moving away from it due to the aforementioned issues with surface detail. I think due to how the light interacts with the surface at a near perpendicular angle, it obscures fine detail on the surface and can make them a bit plain looking. I'm now experimenting using a ring light but powered by a flash instead and so far am getting good results. To do this I 3D designed and printed an adapter to attach to the front of my lens for my flash that reflects the light around a cylinder and directs it down on to the subject. This gives me a similar effect to with the continuous light but that detail and sharpness I prefer from the flash. [ATTACH=full]1339795[/ATTACH] [B]Focus Stacking vs Single Images[/B] I've focused stacked for a long time and much prefer the flexibility and detail it gives me at the expense of the time and effort. Focus stacking means I can shoot at 1/250s, f5.6, and ISO 50 without worrying about depth of field or not being able to tilt the coin or have trouble with high-relief coins. I have my own automatic focus stacking rig so I typically take 50-80 photos per side of a coin moving the camera 0.0625mm per photo and can do so in just a few minutes without any intervention on my part (once I've dialled in the start and end positions). Software to combine the images takes another ~10min per side of the coin and then I spend some more time editing the photos to completely remove backgrounds etc. I do this mainly for myself since most places I share the photos online can't always take advantage of the increased detail a focus stacked image provides but I now have my own website to host them so I can share them more easily at a decent resolution. That being said, if you don't want the hassle I wouldn't recommend it. I've spent hundreds on my current rig and many more hours programming the controller and designing things. You can get a commercial controller and stacking rig that is ready-to-go but it's not for those who wish to spend less time behind a camera rather than more. All being said, I don't think there's a right way and a wrong way, rather some principles and general tips to keep in mind and then a lot comes down to what you prefer. I could be happy with a continuous or flash setup, focus-stacked or make do with single-shot, tilting a coin or not tilting it, a white background or black, a ring light or high-angle light, etc. I could make any of those work well enough but because I like this stuff I like to aim for those small improvements that cost much more in time and money than the basic things that get you 95% of the way there. Some photos to leave you with, these were shot with the Laowa LED ring light and focused stacked: [IMG]https://artemis-collection.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/1094_alexander_susa_tetradrachm_resized.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://artemis-collection.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/1085_sinope_hemidrachm_resized.jpg[/IMG] And here's a bit of a zoom-in on that previous coin (a hemidrachm). [ATTACH=full]1339793[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
Photography Friday
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...