Philip I or II?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by gsimonel, Aug 3, 2021.

  1. gsimonel

    gsimonel Well-Known Member

    This coin is from Antioch, in Pisidia. I found an example on the Wildwinds page for Philip I, referenced to Mionnet 89, so I assume that's how it was identified in the reference. (I not familiar with that text.) But the portrait looks pretty young--and reminds me of Gordian III--so might this be a coin of Philip II as Augustus (minted after A.D. 247)?

    For that matter, is it even possible to distinguish between Philip I and Phillip II as Augustus with these issues?
    Philip.jpg
    Philip I ('the Arab") or Philip II
    PISIDIA, Antioch
    AE 27
    Obv: IMP [M] IVL PHILIPPVS P F AVG P M
    Rev: CAES ANTIOCH COL - Tyche, turreted, standing ,facing forward with head turned left, holding downward-pointing baton in right hand and spear in left; globe at feet on left; all between S and R.
    "Mionnet 89"
    27mm, 12.1g
     
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  3. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

  4. John Conduitt

    John Conduitt Well-Known Member

    I think it must just be the younger portrait. I have a similar issue with this coin, which is listed under Philip II on Wildwinds but Philip I on Ocre with 'bust of Philip II' http://numismatics.org/ocre/id/ric.4.ph_i.226

    Both were IMP M IVL PHILIPPVS, so why else is this Philip II other than the portrait?

    Philip II Antoninianus
    upload_2021-8-3_18-51-43.png
    Rome. Silver. Bust of Philip II, IMP M IVL PHILIPPVS AVG. Sol, radiate, advancing left, raising right hand and holding whip in left hand, AETERNIT IMPER (RIC IV Philip I 226).

    Even @hotwheelsearl's link quotes "The Reference: Krzyżanowska I/7–8 (as Philip II)"
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021
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  5. gsimonel

    gsimonel Well-Known Member

    That's cheating.

    Thanks. I'll go with Philip I then.
     
  6. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark all my best friends are dead Romans Dealer

    For Imperial issues like yours (I'm not familiar with provincial busts for Philip), that is enough. Bearded = Philip I and no beard = Philip II-- he died when he was only 12. The reverse of your coins was also only issued for Phillip II.
     
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  7. Terence Cheesman

    Terence Cheesman Well-Known Member

    Years ago I used to collect the coins from the mint of Antioch in Pisidia. i noticed something odd. Please Note THESE ARE NO LONGER MY COINS There appeared to be two distinct issues The first looked like this one Xpisidantphilj2.jpg
    Though the inscriptions indicated they were of Philip the image appeared to be more like that of Gordian III. The messaging on the reverse appeared to be much more in line with that from the coins issued by Gordian III. These coins seemed to be roughly 28-26 mm in diameter and weigh 11 to 12 grams. They were often described as being coins of Philip II. However there are a second group of coins that looked like this one. Xpisidantphil5.jpg
    This is an image much more consistent with that of Philip I. However even though the iconography on the obverse is the same as the previous issue the weights are dramatically different. These coins come in at 25-24 mm and weigh between 10-6 grams.
    I immediately doubted the attribution of the first group of coins as Philip II did not become an Augustus for about three years and the larger coins do not denote him as a Caesar. Furthermore messaging on the reverse of the lighter coins are much more consistent with those from this mint from the time of Philip I to that of Valerian I. Thus I concluded that the 'First' issue was the initial issue honoring Philip I. The mint may not have had an image of Philip so they used an older one from the time of Gordian III.
     
  8. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark all my best friends are dead Romans Dealer

    This happens sometimes when a new Emperor takes over...coin portraits tend to look like the previous Emperor. RIC IV even mentions that some of the early Imperial issues favor Gordian III.
     
  9. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    Always found it interesting how different imperial and provincial portraits of the Philips are

    Philip I AR Ant RIC 65.JPG
    Philip I AMNG 100.JPG
     
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  10. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..haha..i reckon Phil l wasn't available that day for pictures :D
     
  11. gsimonel

    gsimonel Well-Known Member

    Although it's pretty worn, there's still enough detail on the obverse portrait of this provincial to see a clear difference between this depiction of Philip I and that of the OP:
    PhilipI.JPG
    Philip I ("the Arab")
    Augustus, A.D. 244-249
    Provincial Bronze (AE29)
    Moesia Superior, Viminacium, A.D. 247-248
    Obv: IMP M IVL PHILIPPVS AVG
    Rev: P M S C-OL VIM - Moesia standing between bull and lion
    ANVIIII in exergue
    Varbonov 138
    29mm, 14.3g.
     
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