Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Coin Chat
>
Pet Peeve: that BOGUS 'a sack of Gold for a loaf of bread' adage
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="Juan Blanco, post: 1571520, member: 41665"]<span style="color: #222222"><font face="Arial"><font size="3"></font></font></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><font face="Arial"><font size="3">I would change "looking to" to "wondering if." I agree it's an interesting idea AND I too remain skeptical. Hence, my OP (a deliberately & admittedly <i>nebulous </i>'theme,' rather than preconceived & explicit 'point.')</font></font></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><font face="Arial"><font size="3"><br /></font></font></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><font face="Arial"><font size="3">The older I get, the more I realize<i> the questions</i> rather than the answers are what's important to the process. In fact, I don't 'need' to be 'right.' Although I believe my corrections most accurate, this specific exercise - counting <i>whatever amount of Wheat in whatever amount of Money </i>- is not entirely "new." See Moses Lowman (<u>Paraphrase and Notes</u>..., 1737)</font></font></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><font face="Arial"><font size="3"><br /></font></font></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><font face="Arial"><font size="3"></font></font></span><span style="color: black"><font face="Arial"></font></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><font face="Arial"><br /></font></span></p><p><span style="color: black"><font face="Arial"></font></span><span style="color: #222222"><font face="Arial"><font size="3">Errors above in Lowman's calculations above notwithstanding.</font></font></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><font face="Arial"><font size="3"><br /></font></font></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><font face="Arial"><font size="3"><br /></font></font></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><font face="Arial"><font size="3">I do risk misreading things - but anyone can err, as you've shown us - with or without a specialist's expertise. I did NOT ever mention <i>drachm </i>nor 'hapahzardly mix chœnix & modius' either. The Roman Edict of AD 93 cited <i>modius </i>and the BoR 6:6 (c.AD 94) cited <i>chœnix</i>. The <i>chœnix/</i><i>modius</i> was a retail/wholesale distinction familiar to any literate Koiné Greek writer then living under Roman authority in Asia Minor. Even I - pleb of the forum - can grasp that simple fact. </font></font></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><font face="Arial"><font size="3"><br /></font></font></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><font face="Arial"><font size="3">For dry measure, 1 Attic <i>chœnix </i>was taken for 2 sextarii*; and 16 sextarii = modius (550 cub. in.), and so 69 cubic inches (1.125 liters.) The Phyrgian <i>chœnix</i> was apparently abit more generous, 1.5 litres (according to the archaelogical evidence) but I've already noted the <i>chœnix</i> varies by region and perhaps town. Huge discrepancies? Perhaps so.</font></font></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><font face="Arial"><font size="3"><br /></font></font></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><font face="Arial"><font size="3"></font></font></span><span style="color: #222222"><font face="Arial"></font></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><font face="Arial"></font></span><span style="color: #222222"><font face="Arial"></font></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><font face="Arial"></font></span><span style="color: #222222"><font face="Arial">*fwiw: <i>De Re Coquinaria</i>, Book II, Chapter 2 # 51 for the recipe "Aliter de pullo" Apicius mentions a <i>choenicem of chicken stock</i>. Chicken stock was so well-known then too, that he didn't need to explain that <i>chœnix </i>was 2 sextarii.</font></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><font face="Arial"><br /></font></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><font face="Arial"><font size="3"><font face="Arial">Here is an excellent discussion of the vigorous scholarly debate on exactly<i> how many modii </i>were isssued to Roman soldier monthly (3, 4 or 5) and how that was reflected in the organizational structure of the Army. Food-economy, again! Based on the daily ration of 1 <i>chœnix</i> (=2 sextarii) <b>I suppose the larger <i>chœnix</i> (at Flaviopolis)</b> discounts the 5 modii claim (far too much grain) but allows the 4 modii assertion (32 <i>chœnikes</i> = 64 <i>sextarii</i>.) </font></font></font></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><font face="Arial"><font size="3"><font face="Arial"><a href="http://www.realtechsupport.org/temp/IoT/texts/IoT_Logistics_of_the_Roman_Army_at_War.pdf" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.realtechsupport.org/temp/IoT/texts/IoT_Logistics_of_the_Roman_Army_at_War.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.realtechsupport.org/temp/IoT/texts/IoT_Logistics_of_the_Roman_Army_at_War.pdf</a></font></font></font></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><font face="Arial"><font size="3"><font face="Arial"><br /></font></font></font></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><font face="Arial"><font size="3"><font face="Arial">Domitian increased the soldier's pay: there's debate how much. From 900 sesterii to 1,200 sesterii? Paid thrice annually, that's an increase from 75 Denarii > 100 Denarii. </font></font></font></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><font face="Arial"><font size="3"><font face="Arial">From 10 > 13 Asses per day? Or paid quarterly, from 13.15 > 17.53 Asses per day. The later suggests the daily wage of 1 denarius, fwiw</font></font></font></span></p><p><span style="color: #222222"><font face="Arial"><font size="3"><font face="Arial"><a href="http://www.roman-empire.net/emperors/domitian-index.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.roman-empire.net/emperors/domitian-index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.roman-empire.net/emperors/domitian-index.html</a></font></font></font></span>[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Juan Blanco, post: 1571520, member: 41665"][COLOR=#222222][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3] I would change "looking to" to "wondering if." I agree it's an interesting idea AND I too remain skeptical. Hence, my OP (a deliberately & admittedly [I]nebulous [/I]'theme,' rather than preconceived & explicit 'point.') The older I get, the more I realize[I] the questions[/I] rather than the answers are what's important to the process. In fact, I don't 'need' to be 'right.' Although I believe my corrections most accurate, this specific exercise - counting [I]whatever amount of Wheat in whatever amount of Money [/I]- is not entirely "new." See Moses Lowman ([U]Paraphrase and Notes[/U]..., 1737) [/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Arial] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#222222][FONT=Arial][SIZE=3]Errors above in Lowman's calculations above notwithstanding. I do risk misreading things - but anyone can err, as you've shown us - with or without a specialist's expertise. I did NOT ever mention [I]drachm [/I]nor 'hapahzardly mix chœnix & modius' either. The Roman Edict of AD 93 cited [I]modius [/I]and the BoR 6:6 (c.AD 94) cited [I]chœnix[/I]. The [I]chœnix/[/I][I]modius[/I] was a retail/wholesale distinction familiar to any literate Koiné Greek writer then living under Roman authority in Asia Minor. Even I - pleb of the forum - can grasp that simple fact. For dry measure, 1 Attic [I]chœnix [/I]was taken for 2 sextarii*; and 16 sextarii = modius (550 cub. in.), and so 69 cubic inches (1.125 liters.) The Phyrgian [I]chœnix[/I] was apparently abit more generous, 1.5 litres (according to the archaelogical evidence) but I've already noted the [I]chœnix[/I] varies by region and perhaps town. Huge discrepancies? Perhaps so. [/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#222222][FONT=Arial] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#222222][FONT=Arial] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#222222][FONT=Arial]*fwiw: [I]De Re Coquinaria[/I], Book II, Chapter 2 # 51 for the recipe "Aliter de pullo" Apicius mentions a [I]choenicem of chicken stock[/I]. Chicken stock was so well-known then too, that he didn't need to explain that [I]chœnix [/I]was 2 sextarii. [SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]Here is an excellent discussion of the vigorous scholarly debate on exactly[I] how many modii [/I]were isssued to Roman soldier monthly (3, 4 or 5) and how that was reflected in the organizational structure of the Army. Food-economy, again! Based on the daily ration of 1 [I]chœnix[/I] (=2 sextarii) [B]I suppose the larger [I]chœnix[/I] (at Flaviopolis)[/B] discounts the 5 modii claim (far too much grain) but allows the 4 modii assertion (32 [I]chœnikes[/I] = 64 [I]sextarii[/I].) [URL]http://www.realtechsupport.org/temp/IoT/texts/IoT_Logistics_of_the_Roman_Army_at_War.pdf[/URL] Domitian increased the soldier's pay: there's debate how much. From 900 sesterii to 1,200 sesterii? Paid thrice annually, that's an increase from 75 Denarii > 100 Denarii. From 10 > 13 Asses per day? Or paid quarterly, from 13.15 > 17.53 Asses per day. The later suggests the daily wage of 1 denarius, fwiw [URL]http://www.roman-empire.net/emperors/domitian-index.html[/URL][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Coin Chat
>
Pet Peeve: that BOGUS 'a sack of Gold for a loaf of bread' adage
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...