Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Coin Chat
>
Pet Peeve: that BOGUS 'a sack of Gold for a loaf of bread' adage
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="Juan Blanco, post: 1570816, member: 41665"]LOL - I'm guilty of rambling! I tend to 'workbook' : aggregate various things, to be added to (or rejected) later. Nothing's 'gospel' here. </p><p>I started 'in the middle' because as I answered the 'false adage' on the OTHER thread I realized I wanted MOSTLY to talk about this <b>data point.</b> Given my posting tendency (on CT) around commodity prices - PM prices primarily - this fixation should be understandable. I became FASCINATED by Sigma events, after an hour-long private discussion I had with Jeremy Grantham one year ago. (fwiw, his firm has gathered the most complete record of Bubbles in history : it's not publicly available either.) </p><p><br /></p><p>As for Lukác, I was interested in some the topical matter, but mostly that Silver Chart. Is <u>that</u> correct? The OTHER chart (Hans Kloft's?) seems to show something very similar. Do we have a definitive chart for the Debasement of the Roman Denarius? Here's another.</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=CONFIG]214858[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=CONFIG]214859[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>Also: Where I am going, I have to admit someone else got there first. The Wheat-Silver Ratio! </p><p><br /></p><p>However, I think Wayne incorrectly converts the dry measure (volume) chœnix @ 1.843 pounds avoirdupois (US); she used the lowest-weight <i>Attic chœnix</i>. </p><p>The <i>chœnix</i>, like the "pound," weighed differently by region and even by town. <i> Faute de mieux</i>, the known Bithynian <i>chœnix</i> is presumed closest to the Pisidian Antioch <i>chœnix, </i>given proximity (~300 km.) Caveat noted.</p><p><a href="http://prophecyproof.blogspot.com/2011/02/revelation-66-end-times-cost-of-food.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://prophecyproof.blogspot.com/2011/02/revelation-66-end-times-cost-of-food.html" rel="nofollow">http://prophecyproof.blogspot.com/2011/02/revelation-66-end-times-cost-of-food.html</a></p><p><br /></p><p>The Bithynian <i>chœnix </i>(@ Flaviopolis) was 1.5 liters or 6.34 cups, US dry measure. If 2 cups of US wheat = 1 pound avd. of US wheat, then 6.34 cups of US wheat is <b>3.17 lbs. avd. </b></p><p>I initially calc'd <b>2.55 lbs avd of {Asia Minor} wheat</b> which may also be TOO LOW. Please suggest better, if you know Asia Minor Wheat Weights of the Roman Period.</p><p><br /></p><p>As for the Harvard & MIT professors 2005/6 paper (thesis: "the Roman grain market was an integrated and efficient market") I actually agree with Bransbourg's very recent critique (revision: "the overall Roman economy was not fully integrated, although the Mediterranean Sea did create some meaningful integration along a few privileged trade routes") You will note that Bransbourg seizes upon <b>the Pisidian Antioch price (AD 93)</b> - wholesale basis for my hypothetical "Third Seal" retail data-point - that particular regional price is too extreme and isolated to matter to the Rome Wheat-market itself. I agree but that doesn't discount it's value here, for my purpose (Wholesale/Retail Price Peaks.)</p><p><a href="http://dlib.nyu.edu/awdl/isaw/isaw-papers/3/#section5" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://dlib.nyu.edu/awdl/isaw/isaw-papers/3/#section5" rel="nofollow">http://dlib.nyu.edu/awdl/isaw/isaw-papers/3/#section5</a></p><p><br /></p><p>Looking at the translation* of the epigram (Edict) and beyond the obvious famine & speculation in the Wheat Price Event of AD 92/3, I conclude that :</p><p>a) the typical Wheat Price of 8-9 Asses per modius was <i>relativley higher</i> wholesale, a normal Winter Price in normal 'famine years'</p><p>b) the Price Control Wheat Price of 1 Denarius was <i>very high wholesale</i>, double the typical Winter price</p><p>c) the extraordinary request/need for a price control indicates <b>a true famine price </b><b> had already occurred in that winter AD 92: </b><b>2 or even 3+ Denari per modius </b></p><p>d) the<i> retail weight-price </i>in BoR 6:6 reflects that 'shocking' multiplication to consumers; that retail inflation was well-worth summarizing in a sermon preserved for posterity </p><p>e) other Wheat-Price Spikes of greater magnitude may have occurred, but since numerous Roman historians refer to this one I will presume it's "very significant" (like the 1980 Gold Event.) </p><p><br /></p><p>Lucius Antistius Rusticus died in AD 94. The epigram (carved in stone) was discovered in Turkey in 1924.</p><p><a href="http://webu2.upmf-grenoble.fr/DroitRomain/Edicta/Rustici_AE.htm" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://webu2.upmf-grenoble.fr/DroitRomain/Edicta/Rustici_AE.htm" rel="nofollow">http://webu2.upmf-grenoble.fr/DroitRomain/Edicta/Rustici_AE.htm</a></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>*For the translation I edited/borrowed from p.286 of <u>The Grain Market in the Roman Empire: A Social, Political and Economic Study</u>; Paul Erdkamp</p><p><a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=IIj9uvGtJFEC" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://books.google.com/books?id=IIj9uvGtJFEC" rel="nofollow">http://books.google.com/books?id=IIj9uvGtJFEC</a>[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Juan Blanco, post: 1570816, member: 41665"]LOL - I'm guilty of rambling! I tend to 'workbook' : aggregate various things, to be added to (or rejected) later. Nothing's 'gospel' here. I started 'in the middle' because as I answered the 'false adage' on the OTHER thread I realized I wanted MOSTLY to talk about this [B]data point.[/B] Given my posting tendency (on CT) around commodity prices - PM prices primarily - this fixation should be understandable. I became FASCINATED by Sigma events, after an hour-long private discussion I had with Jeremy Grantham one year ago. (fwiw, his firm has gathered the most complete record of Bubbles in history : it's not publicly available either.) As for Lukác, I was interested in some the topical matter, but mostly that Silver Chart. Is [U]that[/U] correct? The OTHER chart (Hans Kloft's?) seems to show something very similar. Do we have a definitive chart for the Debasement of the Roman Denarius? Here's another. [ATTACH=CONFIG]214858[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]214859[/ATTACH] Also: Where I am going, I have to admit someone else got there first. The Wheat-Silver Ratio! However, I think Wayne incorrectly converts the dry measure (volume) chœnix @ 1.843 pounds avoirdupois (US); she used the lowest-weight [I]Attic chœnix[/I]. The [I]chœnix[/I], like the "pound," weighed differently by region and even by town. [I] Faute de mieux[/I], the known Bithynian [I]chœnix[/I] is presumed closest to the Pisidian Antioch [I]chœnix, [/I]given proximity (~300 km.) Caveat noted. [URL]http://prophecyproof.blogspot.com/2011/02/revelation-66-end-times-cost-of-food.html[/URL] The Bithynian [I]chœnix [/I](@ Flaviopolis) was 1.5 liters or 6.34 cups, US dry measure. If 2 cups of US wheat = 1 pound avd. of US wheat, then 6.34 cups of US wheat is [B]3.17 lbs. avd. [/B] I initially calc'd [B]2.55 lbs avd of {Asia Minor} wheat[/B] which may also be TOO LOW. Please suggest better, if you know Asia Minor Wheat Weights of the Roman Period. As for the Harvard & MIT professors 2005/6 paper (thesis: "the Roman grain market was an integrated and efficient market") I actually agree with Bransbourg's very recent critique (revision: "the overall Roman economy was not fully integrated, although the Mediterranean Sea did create some meaningful integration along a few privileged trade routes") You will note that Bransbourg seizes upon [B]the Pisidian Antioch price (AD 93)[/B] - wholesale basis for my hypothetical "Third Seal" retail data-point - that particular regional price is too extreme and isolated to matter to the Rome Wheat-market itself. I agree but that doesn't discount it's value here, for my purpose (Wholesale/Retail Price Peaks.) [URL]http://dlib.nyu.edu/awdl/isaw/isaw-papers/3/#section5[/URL] Looking at the translation* of the epigram (Edict) and beyond the obvious famine & speculation in the Wheat Price Event of AD 92/3, I conclude that : a) the typical Wheat Price of 8-9 Asses per modius was [I]relativley higher[/I] wholesale, a normal Winter Price in normal 'famine years' b) the Price Control Wheat Price of 1 Denarius was [I]very high wholesale[/I], double the typical Winter price c) the extraordinary request/need for a price control indicates [B]a true famine price [/B][B] had already occurred in that winter AD 92: [/B][B]2 or even 3+ Denari per modius [/B] d) the[I] retail weight-price [/I]in BoR 6:6 reflects that 'shocking' multiplication to consumers; that retail inflation was well-worth summarizing in a sermon preserved for posterity e) other Wheat-Price Spikes of greater magnitude may have occurred, but since numerous Roman historians refer to this one I will presume it's "very significant" (like the 1980 Gold Event.) Lucius Antistius Rusticus died in AD 94. The epigram (carved in stone) was discovered in Turkey in 1924. [URL]http://webu2.upmf-grenoble.fr/DroitRomain/Edicta/Rustici_AE.htm[/URL] *For the translation I edited/borrowed from p.286 of [U]The Grain Market in the Roman Empire: A Social, Political and Economic Study[/U]; Paul Erdkamp [URL]http://books.google.com/books?id=IIj9uvGtJFEC[/URL][/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Coin Chat
>
Pet Peeve: that BOGUS 'a sack of Gold for a loaf of bread' adage
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...
