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Pet Peeve: that BOGUS 'a sack of Gold for a loaf of bread' adage
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<p>[QUOTE="Juan Blanco, post: 1569716, member: 41665"]<font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222"></span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222"><br /></span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222">Another popular variant of this is 'a sack of Gold for a loaf of bread' (or 'plate of food.') But that's <u>not</u> what Revelation 6:6 says! And nowhere else, either. So why do Paper-Bugs assiduously lie on this point? </span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222"><br /></span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222">This interpretive context of Revelation might be of some interest:</span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222"><a href="http://www.ccel.org/ccel/mede/key.iii.i.i.i.iii.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.ccel.org/ccel/mede/key.iii.i.i.i.iii.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ccel.org/ccel/mede/key.iii.i.i.i.iii.html</a></span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222"><br /></span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222">The relevant prophecy of the Apocalypse is in the Opening of the Third Seal. There are different versions and interpretations for dates, but here's what's described <b>for <b>measure </b>& salary ("tough times")</b>:</span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222"><br /></span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222"><font size="4">>>And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, 'A chœnix of wheat or three chœnix of barley for a denarius (day's wage); and spare the oil and wine.'<<</font></span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222"><font size="4"><br /></font></span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222"><font size="4"></font>What's given is a daily food-allowance per salary in whatever 'troubled time,' we can calculate this. A chœnix (χο</span><span style="color: #222222">ῖ</span><span style="color: #222222">νιξ</span><span style="color: #222222">) was a dry-measure, where an (admittedly varying) 'quarter bushel' of wheat weighed ~1.16 kilograms. As barley weighed less, a chœnix weighed 0.93 and so (x3) 2.8 kgs of the cheaper cereal. (I’m not going to calc that, it’s not necessary to make my point.) </span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222"><br /></span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222"></span><span style="color: #222222">That amount of cereal for the daily wage (one Silver denarius) bought someone much more than “a loaf of bread” ! </span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222">2.55 lbs avd of wheat ~ 7.65 cups of flour ~ 2 loaves of bread @ ~1.75 lbs each loaf. </span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><br /></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222">Using the USDA table for calories, protein, carbs, etc. (for 1 lb avd. US Hard Red Wheat) we can easily convert the nutritional value of this chœnix:</span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><br /></font></p><p><font face="arial"></font>[TABLE="class: MsoNormalTable, width: 137"]</p><p>[TR]</p><p>[TD="width: 119, bgcolor: transparent"]<font face="arial"><span style="color: black"><font size="3">Calories</font></span></font></p><p>[/TD]</p><p>[TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]</p><p style="text-align: right"><p style="text-align: right"><font face="arial"><span style="color: black"><font size="3">3,822</font></span></font></p></p> <p style="text-align: right"><br /></p> <p style="text-align: right"><br /></p><p>[/TD]</p><p>[/TR]</p><p>[TR]</p><p>[TD="width: 119, bgcolor: transparent"]<font face="arial"><span style="color: black"><font size="3">Protein (gr)</font></span></font></p><p>[/TD]</p><p>[TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]</p><p style="text-align: right"><p style="text-align: right"><font face="arial"><span style="color: black"><font size="3">142</font></span></font></p></p> <p style="text-align: right"><br /></p> <p style="text-align: right"><br /></p><p>[/TD]</p><p>[/TR]</p><p>[TR]</p><p>[TD="width: 119, bgcolor: transparent"]<font face="arial"><span style="color: black"><font size="3">Fat (gr)</font></span></font></p><p>[/TD]</p><p>[TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]</p><p style="text-align: right"><p style="text-align: right"><font face="arial"><span style="color: black"><font size="3">21</font></span></font></p></p> <p style="text-align: right"><br /></p> <p style="text-align: right"><br /></p><p>[/TD]</p><p>[/TR]</p><p>[TR]</p><p>[TD="width: 119, bgcolor: transparent"]<font face="arial"><span style="color: black"><font size="3">Carbs (gr)</font></span></font></p><p>[/TD]</p><p>[TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]</p><p style="text-align: right"><p style="text-align: right"><font face="arial"><span style="color: black"><font size="3">830</font></span></font></p></p> <p style="text-align: right"><br /></p> <p style="text-align: right"><br /></p><p>[/TD]</p><p>[/TR]</p><p>[/TABLE]</p><p><br /></p><p><font face="arial"><br /></font></p><p><font face="arial"><br /></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222">For the average small Greek male (Age 25-30, in Asia Minor AD 95) engaged in strenuous work only 2,450 – 2,550 calories are needed daily to maintain BMI. This was NOT a starvation diet folks. </span><span style="color: #222222">Let’s get real here! That daily staple diet cost ONE SILVER DENARIUS – <u>not</u> a “sack of Gold.” But the point of Revelation 6:6 was very clear to any literate or sensible Greek – you could NOT afford to raise a family on such poor economy - and no, singletons couldn’t afford “oil & wine” on a penny salary either. Bread was cheaper, much cheaper in olden days ... aren't people always saying that though?</span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222"><br /></span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222">Everything's relative in prices, but a "sack of gold" was never part of the equation. The Bible doesn't say your Gold won't buy bread, anywhere. fwiw</span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222"><br /></span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222">Coin-weights & Value:</span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222"></span><span style="color: #222222">In AD 95, a fair date for events in this part of Revelation, the Domitian Denarius contained ~3.85 grams of Ag (purity?) and valued at 1/25 an Aureus (AD 95: 7.6 grams of Au.) </span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222">So 3.85 grams of Ag bought about 4-5 lbs avd of bread, enough for an active man's sustenance but considered a very meagre measure. Famine prices? </span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222"><br /></span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222">The Denarius:</span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222">[ATTACH]214597.vB[/ATTACH]</span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222"><br /></span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222">The Aureus:</span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222"><br /></span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222">[ATTACH]214598.vB[/ATTACH]</span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222"><br /></span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222"><br /></span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222">Today, 3.85 gr Ag is USD$ 4. Obviously, it's almost impossible to live on $4./day in the USA foodwise, so we probably cracked that seal by the numbers awhile ago.</span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222">Recently met an old geezer who told me that back in 1931, when his parents married, a policeman's salary was $14./week (1931: USD$ 2.80 = 20.30 grams Ag per day?) you could raise a family on that.</span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222"><br /></span></font></p><p><font face="arial"><span style="color: #222222"></span></font>[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Juan Blanco, post: 1569716, member: 41665"][FONT=arial][COLOR=#222222] Another popular variant of this is 'a sack of Gold for a loaf of bread' (or 'plate of food.') But that's [U]not[/U] what Revelation 6:6 says! And nowhere else, either. So why do Paper-Bugs assiduously lie on this point? This interpretive context of Revelation might be of some interest: [URL]http://www.ccel.org/ccel/mede/key.iii.i.i.i.iii.html[/URL] The relevant prophecy of the Apocalypse is in the Opening of the Third Seal. There are different versions and interpretations for dates, but here's what's described [B]for [B]measure [/B]& salary ("tough times")[/B]: [SIZE=4]>>And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, 'A chœnix of wheat or three chœnix of barley for a denarius (day's wage); and spare the oil and wine.'<< [/SIZE]What's given is a daily food-allowance per salary in whatever 'troubled time,' we can calculate this. A chœnix (χο[/COLOR][COLOR=#222222]ῖ[/COLOR][COLOR=#222222]νιξ[/COLOR][COLOR=#222222]) was a dry-measure, where an (admittedly varying) 'quarter bushel' of wheat weighed ~1.16 kilograms. As barley weighed less, a chœnix weighed 0.93 and so (x3) 2.8 kgs of the cheaper cereal. (I’m not going to calc that, it’s not necessary to make my point.) [/COLOR][COLOR=#222222]That amount of cereal for the daily wage (one Silver denarius) bought someone much more than “a loaf of bread” ! 2.55 lbs avd of wheat ~ 7.65 cups of flour ~ 2 loaves of bread @ ~1.75 lbs each loaf. [/COLOR] [COLOR=#222222]Using the USDA table for calories, protein, carbs, etc. (for 1 lb avd. US Hard Red Wheat) we can easily convert the nutritional value of this chœnix:[/COLOR] [/FONT][TABLE="class: MsoNormalTable, width: 137"] [TR] [TD="width: 119, bgcolor: transparent"][FONT=arial][COLOR=black][SIZE=3]Calories[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"] [RIGHT][RIGHT][FONT=arial][COLOR=black][SIZE=3]3,822[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT][/RIGHT] [/RIGHT] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 119, bgcolor: transparent"][FONT=arial][COLOR=black][SIZE=3]Protein (gr)[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"] [RIGHT][RIGHT][FONT=arial][COLOR=black][SIZE=3]142[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT][/RIGHT] [/RIGHT] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 119, bgcolor: transparent"][FONT=arial][COLOR=black][SIZE=3]Fat (gr)[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"] [RIGHT][RIGHT][FONT=arial][COLOR=black][SIZE=3]21[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT][/RIGHT] [/RIGHT] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 119, bgcolor: transparent"][FONT=arial][COLOR=black][SIZE=3]Carbs (gr)[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT] [/TD] [TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"] [RIGHT][RIGHT][FONT=arial][COLOR=black][SIZE=3]830[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT][/RIGHT] [/RIGHT] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [FONT=arial] [COLOR=#222222]For the average small Greek male (Age 25-30, in Asia Minor AD 95) engaged in strenuous work only 2,450 – 2,550 calories are needed daily to maintain BMI. This was NOT a starvation diet folks. [/COLOR][COLOR=#222222]Let’s get real here! That daily staple diet cost ONE SILVER DENARIUS – [U]not[/U] a “sack of Gold.” But the point of Revelation 6:6 was very clear to any literate or sensible Greek – you could NOT afford to raise a family on such poor economy - and no, singletons couldn’t afford “oil & wine” on a penny salary either. Bread was cheaper, much cheaper in olden days ... aren't people always saying that though? Everything's relative in prices, but a "sack of gold" was never part of the equation. The Bible doesn't say your Gold won't buy bread, anywhere. fwiw [/COLOR] [COLOR=#222222]Coin-weights & Value: [/COLOR][COLOR=#222222]In AD 95, a fair date for events in this part of Revelation, the Domitian Denarius contained ~3.85 grams of Ag (purity?) and valued at 1/25 an Aureus (AD 95: 7.6 grams of Au.) So 3.85 grams of Ag bought about 4-5 lbs avd of bread, enough for an active man's sustenance but considered a very meagre measure. Famine prices? The Denarius: [ATTACH]214597.vB[/ATTACH] The Aureus: [ATTACH]214598.vB[/ATTACH] Today, 3.85 gr Ag is USD$ 4. Obviously, it's almost impossible to live on $4./day in the USA foodwise, so we probably cracked that seal by the numbers awhile ago. Recently met an old geezer who told me that back in 1931, when his parents married, a policeman's salary was $14./week (1931: USD$ 2.80 = 20.30 grams Ag per day?) you could raise a family on that. [/COLOR][/FONT][/QUOTE]
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Pet Peeve: that BOGUS 'a sack of Gold for a loaf of bread' adage
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