Penny on Quarter Planchet

If Im correct, its the mints sole responsibility not to allow such things from leaving, so I cant see why the feds would be knocking on your door if its in your possession. On what grounds?

 

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On the grounds that it is stolen government property. Same reason they used for the 1933 double eagles, and several of the 2000 Sac mules, and the grounds they are using to try and get back the 1974 D aluminum cent, and what they say they will use to insist on the return of any 1974 aluminum cents.

 

Not really where I wanted to go with this post.

 

obviously.

If you have it, it is yours.

Back on topic.

I would definitely get it slabbed.

Good luck

 

I cant see that holding up. Nothing was stolen or reported. In the case of the 1974 aluminum, that was handed out by the mint, to Congress. Any "defective" material is suppose to checked by quality control. We all make mistakes, accidents happen and some things just fall through the cracks. It doesn't mean there was any criminal activity on our part. That huge gold hoard found in California, was most likely stolen (personally, I didn't follow the story) and as far as I know, the mint is not trying to recover any of it. Nothing was reported, so its finders keepers.

 

I based my statement on the issue surrounding a fake that was intentionally made and removed from the mint w/o permission (stolen). It would be unlikely someone at a press would risk their job just to throw this into circulation. There was intention here. Today, error coins are waffled, at least those that are found, and are intended as a collectible. Anything that is made at the mint under the condition that this coin was made, was made illegally and is subject to confiscation. I am not sure that mules fall into this category as this may have been an accident.

 

I believe the aluminum cents you mentioned were not a handout. They were passed to members of Congress for viewing with the intention that they be returned. The Ca. gold hoard probably was stolen, but from whom and when? This would take a lot of research and probably never be found out the whole truth. On the other hand shipwreck items were sometimes insured, with documentation still existing, (insurance and ship logs) and are subject to confiscation in the courts providing such documentation is still recognized and upheld by the courts.

 

I never heard the part about them having to return them. Am I right that the Secretary of Treasury makes the final approval on design changes? If that is the case, then the mint didn't need to pass out patterns to anyone else. I was under the assumption that they were handed out because they were quite different. I'm sure the same thing happened in 1943 (or 1942), the only difference is they were not approved.

 

The bottom line is this hobby is based upon screw ups and low production numbers at the mint, and I can understand how they do not like that.

 

I'm trying to think of another hobby where someone's mistake equals someone else's fortune, and I can not think of one. Besides sports, where a goalie gets one passed him or your race car is faster.

 

They have bigger fish to fry. There have been "assisted" errors on the market for years... I can't ever think of a time where they have gone after them.

 

How about the Bureau of Engraving & Printing? Totally separate from the U.S. Mint. And the USPS, totally separate from the Mint. The Inverted Jenny comes to mind. Would love to come across a mismatched serial number from the B.E.P.

 

Numerous times Mint employees have been arrested after the fact in making assisted errors. Fines, loss of pensions and jail time ensued. These are more likely to be documented in our trade papers then the general news outlets. That's why I have been a 30 year subscriber to Numismatic News.

 

Problem is that there is a burden of proof that must be met... They would have to prove that this was intentionally made and smuggled from the mint. Going to be a problem after 40 years.

 

Agree 100%. Even though this post went sideways, I think it made for some good conversation.

 

This is true.

 

It did. Sometimes these threads can scare off people from posting coins. A new collector might see this type of thread and say "well, I don't want the feds banging on my door, maybe I shouldn't share what my grandpa gave me". There are many coins that were stolen but not many that would be considered a black market item, like the one 1933 British penny. That type of item is gone forever (never say never though)

 

Yes they were asked to return them.

Normally the Secretary makes the final decision on designs, but it is still a good idea to run them by the Congress (Keeps them from getting their panties in a wad). But for a composition change typically they DO have to have Congressional approval. So you show them patterns so they can see what the new coin/composition will look like.

This was the case with the Sac mules. Mint employees were convicted of having produced them and smuggled them out of the mint. the government declared them to be government property. They did allow the one or two pieces that were recovered from circulation to be retained but they requested the return of the rest of the known specimens. I don't know if the collector who had managed to acquire most of the known specimens ever surrendered them or not (He had/has I believe 10 of the 12 known pieces).

There isn't as long as you surrender anything they maintain is stolen government property. Refuse and you can/will be charged with being in possession of stolen property.

That's because if it was stolen it wasn't stolen from the Mint. All different dates, if stolen they must have come from some accumulation after they left the mint and had mixed with other coins. And there has been no real evidence that the coins came from a theft.[/quote]

 

"There isn't as long as you surrender anything they maintain is stolen government property. Refuse and you can/will be charged with being in possession of stolen property."

I agree 100%. Is there any police reports stating that these items were stolen? If I recovered a bag in my basement full of $100 bills, there needs to be a report on the serial #s to determine if the bag was stolen or if my grandfather was hoarding them. There are procedures that need to be uphold. If the mint required the pieces back, then they should have mentioned it. How many pieces were handed out? How many were recovered?

 

Besides, what harm are these pieces doing?