Featured Peace Dollars (Is strike an element of grade?)

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Lehigh96, Dec 30, 2008.

  1. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    But Ruben, that is your opinion - not a fact. Don't get me wrong, you are welcome to voice your opinion. But I think if you asked you would find that far more people, including professional graders, would say that luster is the most important factor when determing grade on an MS coin.
     
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  3. Arizona Jack

    Arizona Jack The Lincoln-ator

    gradeflation?
     
  4. quartertapper

    quartertapper Numismatist

    Would it be possible to have two same year, same mint mark coins slabbed and graded MS63, but one being described weakly struck? I would assume this would be possible. Obviously, the better strike would bring a higher price. Just curious...
     
  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    How can you say this ?


    And yet still say this ?

    They are the same kind of thing. Luster is dependant on strike. And both luster and strike are dependant on the pressure used to strike the coin. So if the D mint uses 35 tons of pressure, to strike the coins, the S mint uses 32 tons of pressure and the P mint uses 38 tons of pressure - there is no way that you cannot make allowances for both quality of strike and luster for they are going to be different from all 3 mints because they are not struck with the same pressures. And yes, the die spacing comes into play as well.

    Allowances have to be made for quality of strike and luster because of variances. The only way allowances could not be made is if all things were equal at all 3 mints and for all dates- but they are not. They vary from mint to mint and date to date.
     
  6. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title] Supporter

    The TPGs won't denote the strike quality on the slab. But, it should be fairly clear to the collector that one coin has a nicer strike than the other. If all else is equal, the nicer struck coin will bring a premium.
     
  7. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I think it would be accurate to call it that, yes.
     
  8. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Probably not going to be right either. It seems I have a harder and harder time of figuring out how the TPG's grade these days. Anyway -

    1 - 65
    2 - 65
    3 - 66
    4 - 65
    5 - 67

    Those do not reflect my personal opinion however.
     
  9. Cloudsweeper99

    Cloudsweeper99 Treasure Hunter

    Thanks for pointing that out. Grading has a long way to go to become a science. It's as if the length of a foot changed from year to year.
     
  10. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    It'll never become a science Cloud, it is an art. And it's not quite changing from year to year, but I do take your meaning. For the most part it has largely remained the same since 1986. The one major and recent change is the impact that value has had in bumping the grades. Used to be there was little if any effect upon grades by value. Past couple of years, that has gone out the window. Sad, but true.
     
  11. sketcherpbr

    sketcherpbr Enthusiast

    Well, I sent you a PM with this too, but this was before I saw we were supposed to post them...

    Coin 1: MS 65 your pic
    Coin 2: MS 65
    Coin 3: MS 64 your pic
    Coin 4: MS 65
    Coin 5: MS 66

    thanks for the contest!
    -Peter
     
  12. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    That is true Ruben, as you say - until they reach the MS65 level. That is because coins graded under MS65 are not required to have a full or even a sharp strike.

    I understand your point Ruben, but you are basing it on your opinion only. Since the beginning of grading standards quality of strike has always been considered to be of a lesser consequence than the other criteria. By and large this has always been accepted by the majority of all those involved in the hobby.

    But because you think differently - we should change it ? Why ?
     
  13. Vess1

    Vess1 CT SP VIP Supporter


    The ANA 6th edition states that sellers should add the notation along with the grade to appropriately signify what they have. But I don't expect most to list anything that would detract from what they have for sale. The grade will be hyped and that's about all you're going to get.
     
  14. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title] Supporter

    However, if it is a superb strike...they will let you know. On a weak strike, they won't say anything. :rolling:
     
  15. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    aside from what I already wrote :)

    3 reasons:

    1- Because it is market grading and strong strikes make higher sales in the market for their grade, nearly all the time

    2- Because tradition is no reason to keep making decisions that are outside of normal market response

    3- Because I'm CEO of Brooklyn and I put my stamp on it

    [​IMG]

    Maybe Spock wants to add something to that..
     
  16. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    yeah - I don't agree with that. Even real Art can be done though computers now and every trade that has made this claim has historically been proven wrong.

    Correct Market analysis and computer generated scanning and review, along with proper business techniques based on validated processes can eliminate that assumption as soon as the coin community is prepared to accept it.

    Ruben
     
  17. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    not to mention the quality of the die?

    Ruben
     
  18. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    This is an opinion, yes. What's your opinion, not on what is but what it should be.

    Ruben
     
  19. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    Let me ask you, does it seem logical to to you leave strike value off the summation of the ANA?

    Ruben
     
  20. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    just pointing out that I agree with you Doug, it is just my opinion and I brought in supporting truths to support my opinion. I doubt that CAC is gonna give me my own label based on my opinion.

    Reuvain
     
  21. rld14

    rld14 Custom User Title

    Is that anything like original sin? :D
     
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