I think you are very wise not to limit yourself to only coins in PCGS/NGC slabs...because you know what to look for. The problem for me is...I'm so busy I don't have many opportunities to go to coin shows or visit dealers outside my immediate vicinity. So, when I see coins in hand...I can do exactly what you do. But, most of buying happens online and too much can be missed in photos. When buying online, I have a lot more faith in coins slabbed by PCGS or NGC.
I actually have little experience with shows or major dealers. That's why I frequent CoinTalk, I learn from all of you guys' experience and then form my opinions or figure out what to look for, isn't that why we have this place to learn and to share? There's millions of ways to use this site and learn from it, but by far the biggest is reading what you can about others experience and thinking about it and then evolving your opinion and your education on the subject/subjects. If on every thread about lower tier slabs the mainstream mantra is NGC or PCGS, and I ask why not ANACS, one of the top answers ALWAYS, doesn't matter the grader, is that all of the good coins have been cracked and resubmitted to the top 2 or otherwise left alone if not worth the money to do so. In other words the general stereotype has been formed that these coins aren't worth looking at because all the good ones are gone; when in fact, I listed three easily believable examples of how a coin could potentially come to market without ever seeing a real dealer who has enough sense to resubmit to PCGS or NGC in my last response. So, like I said earlier, I will continue to pursue undervalued coins in every niche, crack, cranny, and corner that I can find to fund my hobby of collecting coins. PS, don't be scared to take a chance online. You are protected on eBay to a large degree, and PayPal has your back, followed by Visa or MC or whoever you get credit from. Try to find a nice, worthy coin in a cheap underrated slab, it's as much of a thrill as hunting down that 32-S quarter, or finding that 09 SVDB in circulation. You can always return it if it's not as described/depicted. Essentially eBay has allowed an enormous mail order coin service. If it's on heritage in a lower slab, then it's probably a pretty darn good coin to begin with, but you still have slab snobs who won't buy it. And again I agree, PCGS and NGC, especially now paired with CAC, do offer that insurance you talk about. Although I will still scrutinize those coins with the combo stickers to make sure it meets my requirement and is pleasing to my eye.
I think a lot of people just regurgitate what they read without actually doing the legwork. I think many of the early ANACS slabbed coins were accurately graded, and as a result many of those have been resubmitted. Because of this, I think people assume all the good slabbed ANACS coins have already been cracked out. But, I think if you know what to look for the newer ANACS slabs can house some gems. The slabs produced when their grading quality declined. I think that is where the ANACS deals can be found. IMHO, the only slabs I believe that have been completely picked through where nearly all the undergraded gems have been resubmitted already are the PCGS OGH holder slabs. Yet, because at one time they had many undergraded coins...they still sell for a premium.
I have a GREAT example for this thread but I've sent the coin off to Greg to be photographed. If I remember I will post a thread about it and this particular scenario when I get it back.
In many cases, your "unique input and perspective" is just flat wrong. That's not a good thing for the hobby and the new folks that believe it, will be hurt. Why must you do that? Just look at the number of knowledgeable people that don't agree with you. You should join the NGC, PCGS and other coin forms and post some of this stuff. Many there hate all the services but will rip you apart. We all have much to learn but we learn the truth before we post it. With that said, I understand you don't care about what anyone else has to say.
I agree with the approach of viewing all coins for there merit. As CAC and I'm sure others have pointed out, there are three tiers inside a grade. I'm on the lookout for the A grade (whether there's a CAC sticker or not), thus I skeptically view every coin before placing bids. My approach is "prove to me this coin deserves the grade". For sake of brevity in my last post, I didn't include all the exceptions. I tried to cover as much ground as concisely as possible. I do look at ANACS slabs, but I tend to focus on their older slabs when there grading was held in higher regard. I generally don't pay attention to any other low level grader. Interesting discussion since my post. I was generally commenting on the fact that one member here continually is pushing the merits of SEGS, when the marketplace feels completely different. The whole conspiracy theory about the top two TPG's and also now eBay is laughable. BTW, I do not view our government as infallible. My current view on the top two parties is that they resemble WWE wrestling. Great drama for the cameras, but behind doors they are sharing $600+ bottles of scotch and laughing all the way to the bank. If you ever do go to sell a coin in a non NGC or PCGS holder, don't be surprised at the value the market places upon the coin.
This is the real problem here. You are welcome to believe whatever you want...that's your right and frankly it's your money. But, the real issue here is that you are basically spreading lies around. Your unique perspective is wrong...it's not an opinion, you are spreading incorrect information. For those of us who know better, no big deal. But for new and experienced collectors, this information can be very damaging. I truly hope that you are simply misinformed or even ignorant of the truth...I really hope that you aren't knowingly trying to profit off of others who are inexperienced. Now, as treylxapi47 has said...and he is right, all coins should be evaluated for their merit no matter what slab they are in. That nice coins can be found (and found for a discount) in lower tier slabs. But, you have to be a knowledgeable and experienced collector to wade through the junk coins to find them. This is not an endorsement of lower tier slabs as the majority of the slabbed are overgraded and some are problems.
I guess i'd like to see some proof of that statement. Can you show me where a SEGS coin you have sold has brought a premium over a similar coin in a PCGS or NGC holder?
The reason PCGS and NGC have such a substantial market is the same reason that eBay really has no competition... It's the quality and safety of the product they provide and their acceptance in the market. Market acceptance is VERY important here. If the vast majority of the market went elsewhere... They would fail. But because there is no other viable option that has the market acceptance that these companies do... They remain dominant.
I hope no one buys this thing. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1953-D-25-C...10?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item2588aef7ba
Dear lord read the description. He even admits to opening the slab and resealing it. He does have some sales though if you refine the search by sold auctions. Whatever works for him I guess.
Me neither...the coin is terribly over-graded (and almost immorally overpriced). Hopefully nobody is stupid enough to buy it. This coin is AT BEST MS64 if it could even get into a top tier TPG slab with that ding (and I'm not sure it would). MS64s have been selling on eBay in the $12 range. I like this one where he hints at the coin possibly being an accented hair Kennedy when it is clearly not: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1964-50-Cen...22?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item258801611a
Beyond the fact that you're clearly prone to exaggeration and are somewhat distanced from reality, this claim is meaningless. Okay... after looking at the linked swill, I'll bite. Please tell us all about these "BAD" TPGs that even you wouldn't recommend to someone with money in-hand. Anyone who ends up paying the premiums that you claim such junk holders "command" are most certainly not skilled collectors, but are newbies or dabblers who don't know any better. Sooner or later someone is going to have to break the news to the people who buy this fluffed up dreck, which isn't fun and often leads to a potential serious collector leaving the hobby with a bad taste in their mouth; no one likes to hear that they got ripped off. You can think yourself a hotshot all you wish, but is the extra money really worth that much to you? Would someone paying a few hundred for an under $20 quarter make you feel like a big man? Mila, you should be ashamed of yourself.
Fixed this since you're an expert on Kennedy Half Dollars. I am not. Okay if you big shots all think this quarter is a MS-64 then thank you for the tip. You're helping my business a lot so I adjusted the price accordingly. I was a bit unsure of this one since there are scarce examples to compare solid MS-67s with. I didn't think the coin was anything like a MS-67 as I mentioned in the ad. I also allowed a Best Offer for the ad so if someone wanted to offer me what they thought it was worth I would know.
Wow, from $400 to $20, and all it took was probably less than a minute of looking at a picture of the coin. That alone should tell you the quality of the TPG. If you didn't think it was anything like a MS67, why did you still throw up a $400 for an average coin with a junk grade?
Exactly! Maybe more of you blokes ought to observe better what I'm doing to sell lots online before criticizing me as being some sort of an ignoramus dunce regarding my views dealing with numismatics, bullion and exomunia.
Chances are at one time this was a better coin but it deteriorated from neglect and environmental causes. It may have had less to do with the grader to some extent than the circumstances involving the coin. The slab was all scratched and it was impossible to photograph well and so the only logical thing to have done at that point was to crack it open. I'm sure you would agree if faced with similar circumstances and truly speaking this holder sucks anyway, it's cheap. ANI and UNC were the same company I read however ANI had much better quality slabs.
