Actually it can be proven. If you hold the slabs up to the right wavelength of light you can see a hidden hologram symbolizing the Trilateral Commission lol...
There is a real conspiracy behind this. It's like Ebay. Same thing. Why does Ebay not have any real competitors? I don't see them doing anything better than the rest of the online auction marketplace. Why does nearly everyone go to Ebay rather than Bidstart, Ebid, Bonanza, EPier, Online Auction or Webstore? All of them seem good to me. A friend of mine tells me everyone goes to Ebay since they were the first to do online auctions but I think it's more involved than that alone.
I think at times this is true...but not when you have strong direct competition. If one company had a monopoly over the market (if only 1 top tier TPG existed) this might be more of a risk. But, with two equally well respected companies competing for the market...no unfair influence is going to occur. How much experience do you actually have with this hobby?
And what solid evidence do you have that ebay is involved in a conspiracy, other than the fact that people prefer it over other bidding sites? Ever heard of marketing? Or that people prefer the exposure and format that ebay offers? Your friend says that ebay was one of the first online auction sites. Well that sounds like a valid reason why it is preferred...people have been using ebay longer, and it is more trusted. It really isn't more involved than that alone... Comparing it to a separate entity does not count as evidence. You can't just say "look at ebay, they have no competitors, therefore it must be a conspiracy. And speaking of conspiracies, wouldn't know know it, the top TPGs are more accepted in the market than 3rd tier TPGs, therefore that is also a conspiracy!" Again, you really don't have any proof that a conspiracy exists with PCGS/NGC, etc...
Even those who get sucked up into buying his fluffed up offerings will someday learn, but still... let's hope that the only one he's actually fooling with this nonsense is himself.
Funny you mention it. Q. David Bowers attended a Bohemian Grove meeting some years ago. He even wrote about it in one of his books. Such things do shape the world whether you like to think so or not.
Ebay is definitely involved in a conspiracy against coin grading services since they won't allow Sheldon Scale usage to be listed in the ad other than for TPGs PCGS, NGC, ANACS & ICG. Also they won't allow raw coins or slabbed coins outside of the cabal of 4 to be listed for more than $2,500 at either auction or Buy It Now.
Not a surprise given his last name. Bower/Bauer (Rothschild). Is this really the case or are you making up a funny?
I'm not new to the hobby and in fact I've I personally have met with some of the biggest names in coins. I just have my own understanding of this hobby and it is one that is more unusual. I've been involved with coin collecting since grade school and have seen many MANY great, average and crappy coins over my lifetime. I am not exclusively looking for attention to my auctions but honestly it's certainly a good thing. I am here to learn more about coins/exonumia and give my unique input and perspective about what goes on in it. Mind you I can tell you folks about BAD third-party graders I would never recommend. If you want a list of many of those graders, just ask. I've looked at a lot of slabbed coins.
100% legitimate info. He even wrote about it in his book titled: The Experts Guide to Collecting and Investing in Rare Coins. Page 144. Invited by his pal Ken Rendell who is a big time antiques dealer or something. Rendell was commissioned to build Bill Gates' library on like history or something similar to that, so I don't know if it's Rendell's standing in the antiques world or that he was pegged close to Gates, either way he was invited to the Grove which in turn extended an invitation to Bowers. I don't agree with your stance on these basement tier slabbers, but I am 100% in agreement that bigger cogs turn the wheels of our world than what we are 'allowed' to see. When you see too many coincidences, they usually stop being perceived as unintentional individual outcome or instance and start looking more like well intended thought out plans. I feel sorry for people who trust our government and follow them blindly, they tend to have missed the critical thinking bus or are just willfully ignorant to what's occurring around them. Sad.
What brand of foil do you recommend for hat making? Is it shiny side out? Be careful about exposing conspiracies on an open forum, your posts are most certainly being watched. You are going to critically think yourself onto a sacrificial alter at the next grove meeting.
I hope everyone realizes that my posting about the Trilateral Commission taking over the coin market was meant to be a complete joke. There was no article about this by the John Birch Society. I just don't understand why we need conspiracy theories to explain any of this. Both Ebay and the top tier TPG's were early adopters, and due to the fact that they have performed consistently well from the beginning, they have come to dominate their markets. This is basic economics and marketing that can be applied to many of the other products and services that we use every day. Even based on my own very limited experience I have found PCGS and NGC to be the safest option. My earlier post about the damaged Buffalo in the problem free ANACS holder is a prime example. I have a mere handful of lower tier slabs in my collection, probably less than 5, and even with that small of a sample size I've already been burned. If ANACS can slab a coin like that I can't imagine how much worse the other ones must be. When competitors of PCGS and NGC give out problem free grades for coins with problems that Stevie Wonder wouldn't have missed, there just isn't any support for a conspiracy theory.
Conspiracy theories are like fairy tales for adults. Some people prefer an exciting possibility to the boring truth.
Oh I know it was tongue in cheek, however the information I posted was pertinent about Bowers and it adds to the discussion. Adds fuel to the flames as it were.
I LOVE a good conspiracy. Like I said I don't believe in as many 'coincidences' as I've seen or read about. Some things are definitely intentional whether you believe it or not. That's a general statement, I'm not identifying the coin industry as some great conspiracy, but there are definitely real world scenarios that i have sense enough to question the official story. The only thing I have done was bring up a known fact about Bowers and the Grove. That was simply to fuel the fire from the posters above and add to the speculation. I do not believe in a coin industry conspiracy of any kind. Haven't experienced anything to make me believe that way. I just simply do not believe everything I am 'told' by authority figures whether it be the government, TPGs, professors, teachers, or leaders. They all have an agenda of some sort or an angle to put forth. So yes, critical thinking is very much involved when you question the norm, not so much when you do as your told and follow the lead. That's not thinking, that's just going through the motions because you're keeping up with the Joneses or told to behave a certain way. As for my foil brand, I use Wal-Marts Great Value brand 90' Heavy Duty rolls, best product for the money; definitely best value. Seriously I use this brand for my business, like 4-6 rolls a week. Anyway I apologize for offending anyone, that really wasn't my intention. Also, if it was such a secret about Bowers' and the Grove, don't you think he probably wouldn't have wrote about it? Like in a book?
The thing is, NGC and PCGS have BOTH slabbed problem coins, so how do they get automatic forgiveness and still stay strong in the market? And again, for whatever it's worth I'm an NGC guy, when I'm buying $1000+ coins. It would have to be one of the big 2 for anything like that.
Actually, this happened because so many lower tier TPGs were popping up and scamming their customers. eBay got many complaints because of it. So, to protect both themselves and their customers they decided to only allow the top tier (and the second tier) TPGs graded coins to be sold as graded coins with grades on their site. There is no conspiracy here at all. It's simply a known fact that these 4 TPGs are better than the rest. It provides a degree of buyer protect when purchasing coins online.
Because it happens so infrequently...and when they do make a mistake they have a buyback policy for that piece. So, on the rare instance they make an error (and everyone does at some frequency), they fix it.
And knowing that they do make mistakes because we DO hear about them, and also knowing that folks play the crack out game and cross back and forth from PCGS to NGC doesn't give you enough skepticism? I mean I know how you think on this subject as it's similar to mine. Treat them all as if they have an issue until you confirm otherwise with your own eyeballs. And I also agree that the main two do have more credibility, I guess my point is that if A, B, and C graders all make mistakes, why limit myself to buying just coins from A, or just B, or just C, doing that limits your ability to find deals and potential profits. I keep my eyes open for opportunities with EVERYTHING, and in coins I will buy whatever I KNOW (not think) is a good deal with a high potential for an upside. That means buying a PCI coin that uncle Joe submitted his fathers collection to and hasn't done anything with them since then. He could be sitting on a Gem proof Walker that is problem free, but no one wants it because it's an ACCUGRADE holder and they don't believe its good because it hasn't already been crossed. Well duh, what if Joe never cared about the holder and he tried to sell it, or a family member if he passed, or even a third rate eBay dealer who doesn't even know what it is? Point is there are infinite ways good coins could be in 'bad companies' holders and still be legit pieces. This is why education and your eyeballs are good tools to utilize. Slab snobs are actually hilarious to me as like I mentioned earlier they let those other good deals fall to me and folks who are thinking like me simply because they won't even look at non PCGS or NGC coins.
