It hasn't taken me long to come to the same conclusions after reading lots of postings from people with much more experience than I have. However, I think that the low level slabbers will always be in business because it is human nature for everyone to want to think they got a good deal. Just consider that: 1. Their grading fees are cheaper than PCGS/NGC. 2. They give out grades that people want to hear and ignore problems with coins that deep down inside the person sending it in knows are there. 3. The coins in those slabs are cheaper so therefore they must be a bargain. I learned this lesson a while back when I bought a nice looking key date Buffalo in an ANACS slab and thought I was getting a great deal because I only had to pay wholesale bid for it. It didn't seem like such a great deal anymore when I took it home and noticed a huge gash that was hidden in the design. I'm sure whoever sent it in to be slabbed knew the gash was there and knew that it wouldn't pass at PCGS or NGC, so they sent it to ANACS so they could be told what they wanted to hear.
Really the reason that PCGS and NGC are regarded higher than any other slabber is not based completely on merit but rather politics. There's no reason these two companies should only be dominating the coin market. It's like the Republicans and Democrats dominating politics (are they any better than the third-parties?), it's a big fraud organized to work against us that the sheeple allow to perpetuate indefinitely. It's time we used our own brains and decide for ourselves the best graders for coins to be evaluated. Free market competition in coin grading based on skill and making the best product to preserve and protect my coins in the end is what will win me over.
I used my own brain and took advantage of the free market when I took the ANACS graded buffalo back for store credit, because I knew it was a problem coin that never would have made it into a PCGS or NGC slab...
Actually, there is a reason. Unlike any of the other grading companies, they have been consistently grading coins at a high level for many years. Sure, they make some mistakes (everybody does)...but really they have done quite a remarkable job. Some other companies were excellent for a short time (ANACS, Dominion) but either allowed their quality to decline or simply went out of business. But, PCGS and NGC are the only TPGs to grade coins at a high level for an extended period of time. Their preference is based solely on merit.
I'm confused. I read it as KSorbo was disagreeing with you and you were agreeing with him disagreeing with you, and you liked him disagreeing with you. Either my comprehension skills are failing me or I don't know which side of this argument you are on anymore...
PCGS and NGC became the top two graders because of free-market competition. You seem to be implying that they're monopolies, which they're not. PCGS and NGC rose to the forefront because of the other TPG's incompetence.
So you don't think they've worked with other numismatic associations to stifle competition in the marketplace, like how the Federal Reserve works with Congress, F.B.I., C.I.A. and major corporations to not allow another American made currency to seriously compete with theirs?
I sincerely hope all of you NGC and PCGS bandwagoneers stay out of my buying arena. I've picked some very choice, solid coins at a discount because I target some specific 'low tier slabs'. There is method to my madness and it has paid off well. As with anything you just have to be smart with what you are doing. In my personal opinion I view ALL coins the same way. PCGS, ANACS, PCI, and NGC, how can you not be skeptical about them all when we have dealers/members who make threads about the success they have at sending in coins for better grades and actually getting the grade. Almost always that is through PCGS and NGC. One of the more memorable ones was an older gold coin that was on the fence and body bagged like twice before it finally came back with a clean grade. All the slabs are to me are fancy holders and half guarantees that it's genuine if I can look it up and check the coin against the TPGs database. And for the record I am relatively 'new' at buying high end coins (less than 2 years) and haven't been burned yet, and I haven't bought a PCGS or NGC coin in quite some time. Why spend more money for a 'name' when I can have the same coins at a discount.
PCGS and NGC must have been established by the same people who ordered the Kennedy assassination lol...
No. I happen to believe that PCGS and NGC became market leaders because of their strict grading standards, which in turn enabled them to form partnerships with other numismatic organizations. You're welcome to throw in your lot with the Ralph Naders, Liberty Dollars, and third-tier TPG's of the world, but don't expect anybody else to join you.
I agree with you 100% I don't think there is anything wrong with this view. I actually feel the same way, every coin I buy I look at without looking at the holder. If you know what you are looking for, you can find some gems in lower tier holders. But, they are the exception...not the rule. I personally like PCGS and NGC. But, it's not because I put my faith in the label above my own eyes. When I buy a slabbed coin, I still evaluate the coin exactly the same way. However, I do a lot of my buying online these days...and you can't see everything perfectly in photos on a computer screen. If I'm not buying from a highly respected dealer, I like knowing that the coin has been evaluated by a group who is held in high regard and considered experts in the field (PCGS or NGC). It makes me more comfortable buying a coin not in hand. However, one of my views that makes me a little unique here at CT is that I do believe a slabbed coin is worth more than an identical raw coin...sort of. I understand that a group of experts have evaluated the coin and their expert opinion of the coin does add security to the piece...and there is some value to that. Is the coin in the slab worth more...no. But, the package of the coin with that expert opinion is worth more than the coin alone. That is the value of the top tier TPGs and the market has shown that.
I have to ask...how do you come up with these ideas? What makes you think there is some grand conspiracy to build up PCGS and NGC and destroy the lower tier companies? It sure seems to me that the market alone has proven who is better based purely on consistency and quality.
He is new to the hobby and understands very little about what he is talking about. He is only here to draw attention to his ebay auctions. I hope no one actually believes the stuff he keeps posting.
I will say my favorite current grading company is NGC. I like the holders and I like the company especially paired with the ANA. I just got stuck on a certain area and haven't needed to seek out NGC coins lately. At any rate for my per coin budget it doesnt make much of a difference what slab it is. If you're in the $3,000+ per coin club then I doubt you will be finding those types of coins in lower tier slabs to start with. For now my budget doesn't even let me look at coins like that in a realistic manner, so I'm happy buying my coins 'cheap' and still scoring nice coins. I don't know about that exception/rule thing either. I must've stumbled upon ALOT of exceptions.
I know from experience that once an entity amasses power and gets too big this advantage corrupts them since having power has the unfair ability to influence important prominent people and to set the rules which translates into leverage to do whatever it takes to suppress your competition and often that leads to thwarted innovation. Look at the banks being too big to fail. Instead of replacing this parasitic behemoth (ex. Federal Reserve System) with something better they don't die out due to their size which makes them seem invincible and our problems continually will get bigger and worse and eventually they will devour and take over everything on Earth. This is what happens when monopolies get out of control. They're so concentrated into everything before long everything will shut down without them since their influence has spread itself into everyone's financial or personal circumstance. People become dependent on them for their survival but especially those who have amassed wealth or have vested interests will do whatever it takes to not place that in question.
I'd better buy lots of coins while I still can, because the Trilateral Commission and the Bilderberg Group are about to monopolize the numismatic market. I just read a great article about this on the John Birch Society website, you should check it out!
