PCI becoming DGS

I see your point. However, the difference between self-slabbers as I think of them and a dealer who prints a grade on a 2X2 is that there is often a pretense of certification, implied if not explicit.

Second, many self-slabbers, like Aboncon/SGS use different identities for the slabbing and sales operations to give the impression that the slabbing is done by third parties. Again, I think the purpose is to conceal, if not to deceive.

Third, many of these self-slabbed coins end up on the secondary market where (by your definition) they become third party graded coins because they were graded by someone other than the seller or the buyer. It's probably too much to expect that a buyer is going to crack the coins out of the slab before trying to sell them, especially if the slab says MS70 on it.

On the other hand, if a dealer writes a high grade (or a high price) on a 2X2, you can be sure the seller will include that in the picture when reselling the coin!

 

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John Feigenbaum is still President of DLRC.

 

If I understand correctly, PCI was a legitimate TPG but with often questionable grading.
Not one that you'd buy the slabs sight unseen.
But also not one that would grossly misrepresent a coin's grade.

If they maintain a database and tighten up on their grading they'll do okay.
But Photograde?
Admittedly my copy is a 1974 edition.
Hope they have enlarged and improved the resolution of their images since then.

 

I typically use Photograde standards myself for circulated coins, and I have no problem with this approach. But Photograde doesn't cover mint state coins to the best of my knowledge, so I don't know what to make of that. All things considered, I'll wait and see the slabs and grading before judging. I was fairly happy with PCI since their coins were generally discounted.

But admittedly I'm not even close to being a great grader. I just know what I like and what I'm willing to pay.

 

Agreed. But the person was saying "David Lawrence is a good man with an impeccable reputation" as if David Lawrence (Feignenbaum) is still alive.

 

I have been a member of the forum since Feb 2005 and visit the forum once or twice a day. Usually I don’t post since I am here to learn difference views, expand my knowledge of my hobby and my writing skills I admit are poor. But to be honest I have never seen a bigger group of negative people in my life than some of the most recent individuals commenting in this forum. Flame away
Thank you

 

Sorry if I was negative.

 

I meant no negativity at all, just this. You are a TPG or you are not. Simple as that.

 

I hear Robert Chambers is going into the TPG business too. And the coin dealer I go to in town is also doing it.

 

I dont know what you were expecting. If someone grades coins and also sells coins; wouldnt it make sense for that person to sell the coins he grades? And by doing so, that person would perhaps grade those submitted to him at a higher grade in order to sell them at a premium. Thats all I get out of these posts. It is in fact a confict of interest. And I think that most people here collect coins for the pleasure and not for the profit. If both ensue, then even better. Third party grading is a very huge business. Coin collecting is a hobby. See the difference?

 

I agree with almost everything NPCoin has said so I dont have to say much. Kudos for a good laugh as you shine a little light on the jargon.

As for the self-slab...I, at one time, decided I wanted to slab my own coins...for myself and because I thought it might safeguard them better. I decided not to because my coins are all different sizes and it would be a pain. I bought the slabs then thought differently of it. If I decided to continue (and I still have the slabs) and slab my coins, even estimate a grade...and then decided to sell them...there is nothing wrong with that...Real or implied.

If someone thinks a slab is implying anything, thats them, they need to learn to read a listing and look at a photo. There is nothing at all wrong with self slabbing, the TPGs do not have a monopoly on the ability to put your coin away into a coffin. People can choose not to buy if they dont like it.

A slab means nothing to me when it comes to grade or authenticity anyway...in the end they are all just collectors who are trying to make a buck off the hobby...grumble....grrr...grunt.

Dont mean to be a negative Nelly.

 

One of the most valuable things about CoinTalk for me is learning from other collectors about hype. I'm sure the things I've learned here have helped me to avoid a lot of expensive mistakes. I don't see that as negative; just skeptical. I would like to understand the implications of DGS entering the marketplace. Some very useful facts have come out of the discussion.

 

It is easy to miss someone's passing. Even easier when their business continues to operate under the same name.

 

Man, I didn't know he passed on. Learn something new everyday.

Phoenix

 

Ok he died. I'm pretty sure Clarence Birdseye is dead too. I think we are getting off track. And irregardless isnt a word!

 

It is a word...just not considered good usage, according to one of my vintage dictionaries.

"I think we are getting off track."

 

:hail: I'm putting my Birthyear collection into snap-lock slabs. BEAUTIFUL presentation, and they can stack and store rather easily...even more so than air-tites. They are my personal preference for my collection.

Exactly. There is nothing inherently wrong with using slabs, just as there is nothing inherently wrong with using cardboard or other plastic, such as Capital or Air-tites.

Again, enough cannot be said about education and knowledge. Probably one of the biggest problems about online auction venues, eBay especially, is the urge to get a "great deal". Because we want to get the most, and even beyond, for our money, many times we will not take the time to scrutinize a listing, and will jump to the bid button. These things are not just "auctions", they are contracts. You should never agree to a contract until you have read EVERYTHING in the contract. If you do not agree with everything in the contract, then either do not sign, or make changes to it first.

My wife and I just had our fifth child in February, and the paperwork after admission took over a half hour because I read through each and every sentence in their forms. I know the nurse didn't like this much, especially when I started to cross things out and initial the changes before signing, but these things are contracts. Contracts are not something to make games of.

Exactly the point! The point is the transparency. Trying to deceive and make "the public" believe that the relationship between the "grading company" and the seller are something it's not. "Self-slabbing" should be noted as such. The fact that the coin(s) is/are over-graded is another issue. The issue with "self-slabbers" is deception regarding the source of the slabbed coin. Anytime an apparent conflict of interest exists, it should be noted in the legal contract.

As a side note, I have seen plenty of "top" TPG slabbed coins that were grossly over-graded, especially with Proofs. PCGS proof Ikes are one of the worst culprits.

 

if you buy from them they usually send a book called tales from the bourses it was an amazing book IMHO. However with this purchase there will be a conflict of interest but looks to be seen how well they execute

 

Most of the "negativity" some would simply call skepticism. I view it as a healthy does of cynical skepticism (I think that in itself is a juxtaposed oxymoron?). In order to have a more full world view of the various issues in our hobby, it is important to look at not only both sides of the coin, but also the edge.

Being such an emotional issue amongst many hobbyists, the issue of "self-slabbing" lends itself to both cynicism and skepticism. Some would see this as simply "being negative", but simply "being negative" does not fit the model of what many in this thread have replied.

Cynicism is defined as "an attitude of scornful or jaded negativity, especially a general distrust of the integrity or professed motives of others." The practices of most of the "self-slabbers", especially on eBay, lends itself to cynicism, as those knowledgeable of their practices do in fact have a scornful negative view of them.

The important thing is to see all sides of the issue, irregardless of any agreements or disagreements the ensue. Rebuttal is not flaming. Flaming has no reason nor purpose except to belittle someone. Rebuttal and debate, on the other hand, have the purpose of attempting to clarify a view in the hopes of persuading others to agree.

Keep lurking and keep learning! You would be surprised at how many knowledgeable people lurk around here, but speak rarely, except on those issues that really chap their hides.