Sorry to hear about your son, never easy dealing with a loss like that. For the classic commem series neither PCGS nor NGC will automatically assign a details grade for toning unless they think it was artificial so you wouldn't be limited to either in that regard. At least some of them would likely be worth grading if you were looking to sell them, though some others the price spreads are so small between a lot of grades you may consider selling it raw if you can get a fair price. There's a few options now a days for how to go about the whole process and where you can sell though you mentioned reading the forums had reignited your passion and you may just decide you are happier keeping them I have always left those parts blank on the registrations, maybe I'll now get in trouble for admitting that lol.
Welcome to CT....hope that enjoy it half as much as I have ASE = American silver eagle OGP = original government packaging AT = artificial toning (I think)
To be completely honest...I do NOT like PCGS slabs...to me NGC is head and shoulders above PCGS. For many years PCGS lead the market; but I personally feel that they lost their edge over a decade ago. NGC holders look, feel, and are actually made better. The myth of coins being worth more in PCGS holders exists but I think it is ridiculous. It really doesn't matter which grading company 's grades the coin...the COIN should speaks for itself. Over the years PCGS has relied on its name and simply done nothing to improve. On the other hand, NGC has never stopped improving their holders and it is shows abundantly in the coin arena. For me personally, I just like the way they look and feel. I believe that people in general think that if they get a PCGS slab then they will get more money. Many people do get more money but its the people who pay PCGS prices that I laugh at. NGC is more accurate and reliable in my opinion. Don't get me wrong; I have many PCGS slabs but I don't look at the slab when I buy a coin. I look at the COIN. WE have moved so far away from the magic of just looking at a coin to worrying how much will I get back if I buy it in a PCGS or NGC holder? Where is the fun in that? When will people stop thinking that they are going to get RICH using coins as an investment vehicle. You won't. Yes some do....but very few. It takes time. The absurd price differences between the two TPG companies just blows my mind. But I guess it just goes to show you that a coin's value is what a person is willing to pay for it...and NOT which slab it comes in. This is JMHO. Please don't flame as the OP asked a question and am simply answering it. I end this with the simple fact that everyone has the right to choose what they want. Period. I am not judging anyone. I am simply giving you my opinion for thought. Thank you for your time and enjoy what remains of your day.
So far I had good experience grading with NGC. Just recently, I tried PCGS and it was a nightmare experience. PCGS customer service was terrible and dropped the ball on nearly every request I made, on top of that it was very difficult dealing with them. I tried crossing 4 NGC perfect-like modern eagles and none of the crossed. Considering they had a 50% crossing rate at the time of submission, and I've seen countless eagles in PCGS slabs looking worst than the perfect coins I submitted, it makes me put into question PCGS grading etiquette and bias associated with who submits the coins, what slab they are in, etc. I've noticed that large dealers who submit to PCGS are more likely to get favorable grading on coins which in my opinion are MS69, but PCGS will grade as MS70. I had to return couple of gold eagles purchased from large dealers in PCGS slab because of that. When purchasing coins in NGC slab, the eagles in my opinion were graded more strictly and true to MS70 grade in my experience. To make the long story short, what in my opinion is PCGS bias has turned me off and I will not grade with them anymore. I've also decided not to purchase the coins slabbed by them, especially if they're modern eagles. Some people will say that PCGS coins bring maximum return, perhaps that is true in some instances, but only so when buyer is naive enough to put the plastic over the actual coin. You know how some sellers will boast that given PCGS coin has low pop, which inherently refers to PCGS plastic (no the coin) and is hardly a true representation of coin population when you count in the grading bias and its direct effect on the population size. I will pass on PCGS because they lost my trust.
Completely false and nothing but a myth. Mostly a myth perpetuated by people who think their coins didn't grade high enough. Well what were the requests? Not the least bit surprising. You were asking them to cross 70s when the NGC holder completely obscures part of the coin with the white fingers. It shouldn't surprise anyone that 70s will have a minuscule crossing rate. Their crossing rate on other coins is completely irrelevant
Really? I completely disagree with your outright assumption. You mean when I buy multiple modern gold eagles from large dealer graded by PCGS MS70 and they have obvious scratches and dings which are common in MS69 or lower grade coins, that is a myth? Nothing to do with my coins grading high enough since that was my observation way before I submitted my coins to PCGS for the first time. And I am not the only one making this observation from experience. Coins were submitted as standard but I was charged without my permission for express service, when calling them to change it, 2 agents refused to help, 3rd one finally changed it back! They were also supposed to hold my coins in vault until I get back from business trip, it didn't happen, they shipped right away. My 10K package was sitting in post office for week and half and I picked it up one day before it was going to be sent back to sender! If PCGS is not able to cross the NGC MS70 gold eagles due to slab obstructing the coin they should not be accepting crossover requests in those slabs otherwise they are literally taking your money for nothing. Can you imagine you're going to change your tires in the shop and they just look at them and charge you knowing they won't be changing them? Thanks, but no thanks.
I only buy PCGS slabbed coins. (When I buy a slabbed coin) With that said, I still buy the coin and not the slab. Case in point, a couple of weeks ago I was looking to buy a Walking Liberty half for my type set. Year wasn’t that important but I wanted a great example of a Walker. The key point I was looking at was the thumb and index fingers on the left hand. Well I looked at a lot of MS65, 66 and 67s at the show. I was shocked and just how poorly struck some of the MS66 and 67s were. There was no detail at all in the thumb and index fingers, and they looked like just a blob. I ended up buying what I thought was the best example of a Walking Liberty at the entire show. It was a 1940 MS65. The thumb and index fingers were clear as day. According to the grading standards, strike is to be taken into consideration at grades MS65 and higher. So a poorly struck coin shouldn’t grade higher. I know that some years are notorious for poorly struck coins, but that’s no excuse to give away higher grades for those years because of that. An MS67 coin should look the same across all years of a particular type. And an PCGS MS67 (or any grade for that matter) should look the same as an NGC MS67 coin. And in a perfect world and PCGS MS67, NGC MS67 and a fairly graded unslabbed MS67 should all be priced about the same. But as we all know, the world isn’t perfect.
There's nothing to disagree with, dealers don't get better grades. Some of those scratches are as struck, but I never said every 70 was going to be perfect. If you're using magnification that would also be a problem for why you're finding it. Regardless, they don't get better grades period. They get lower submission fees, special labels, and faster turnaround times ect the exact same things they get from NGC. They aren't a free holding facility. You can't be mad at a business for not doing something just because you decided they should do it. It's not taking your money, you're the one making the decision to send them. It's well understood the rate will be very low on those especially the ones with the big PCGS value jump. Before you had to be willing to accept 69 as the lowest grade which kept people from trying it, but people kept requesting they change that so they did.
When my return rate of modern gold eagles graded by PCGS MS70 from large dealers is 75% or higher, stating that larger dealers may receive more favorable grade on larger volume submissions is a fair point. And when I make a submission for the first time sending 4 literally perfect eagles (which are among best I ever owned or seen) which were examined under x5-x15 and also looked over by respected professionals prior submission, and none of them crosses, then something isn't right here. Of course PCGS is a private enterprise and they are entitled to accepting and rejecting whatever coins they see fit based on their interpretation of grading scale. I'm just pointing out the inconsistency and making an educated inference based on my purchasing experience and multiple submissions to NGC and my one and only submission to PCGS. Actually I can. PCGS has stated they would hold the coins for me in their vault without me asking or requesting it. Both customer reps have confirmed they would hold them in their vault until I get back and ask them to release for shipping. Had I know they would not honor the commitment they undertook voluntarily with double explicitly stated confirmation, I would have made different arrangements. Yes, making the decision to have them evaluate the coin. Not take it, charge me and simply send it back because it's in the holder that prevents them from doing a proper examination. If that's the case, they should specify which holders are acceptable for review. Otherwise this is just a easy way for them to milk the customers out of money for nothing, while trying to portray the image that their grading standard are high. I have no problem with people using PCGS, and I don't doubt that they came to be one of the more respected grading services without a merit, having said that my experience both with their customer service and grading was very disappointing and I would be a fool to try repeat it and expect different results. Their poor customer service alone is enough for me to not want to deal with them again.
Large dealers submit huge amounts which brings probability on their side. When you get monster boxes or large orders from the mint the production is now generally good enough that some sort of standardized percentage will get 70s with a +/- variance. Occasionally some offerings over perform like the EU sets, and some under perform like the 2012 ASE set. Really though none of us have any idea what the dealers return rate actually is. Many of them have stopped having anything but 70s holdered for recent moderns. That heavily skews the population reports to be 70 heavy where only the 70s are recorded and everything that would have been a 69 or lower goes unrecorded. The only ones who know their true rate are PCGS and the submitter. They did review it, they just didn't agree. The NGC holder does block parts of the coin so they do have to assume in small areas. They don't make assumptions if a scratch is on a holder or the coin, any visual impurities on the holder hurt your chances, and if they have any doubt they just say no. Regardless of holder though it is well understood that crossover grading is the hardest due to not being able to view the coin raw and being on the hook for it if they crack it out then say oops we really don't agree with this. That's the major reason why a lot of people will just crack coins out and submit them raw that they are sure about instead of doing a cross over.
Yep, I don't agree with them either. So that's just that. It would be interesting to send all 4 of those same eagles raw for inference, but being happy with NGC in the past, I don't see the reason to do it. I'm a lot more interested in the coin, than plastic. Having said that, I could post countless examples from large dealers who advertise rare modern gold eagles graded by PCGS MS70 (but look MS69) with dings, scratches (some being very visible and obvious), with super inflated price based on PCGS value estimate. Could you find similar example for coins graded MS70 by NGC, I don't doubt it, but in my experience I only had to return a modern eagle graded MS70 by NGC once when purchased from a large dealer, but even then it was pretty close. PCGS also has a lot lower population in various years, hence their value estimates are a lot more hefty. The reason this annoys me is because the difference between MS70 and MS69 is not that big, and if you start grading what appears like MS69 as MS70, you are watering down the definition of perfect coin and making grading of modern eagles pointless. I won't even go into charging the huge premiums for it, especially when you're actually buying MS69!
