PCGS vs. NGC - anyone send the exact same coin to both?

Because their customers, their cash flow, don't want their coins to grade low. They're walking a fine line.

 

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So it's because they've established a certain reputation in the TPG marketplace.

But why not, slowly but surely over many years, grade their coins a little lower to match or overtake PCGS's perception as a "higher" value - in other words, why not lower their grades by attrition to gain more market share?

 

I think 30 years of consistency is a good reason to not change. People who collect coins in both brands of plastic know the differences.

Furthermore, the oft repeated mantra that "PCGS numerical grades are on average one point lower than NGC" is not true outside of the USA coin market. NGC has the favor of world coin collectors over PCGS, except for some smaller regional markets (e.g., Australians seem to prefer PCGS graded coins over NGC). In the end, the continuation of consistency trumps playing the game that PCGS plays. And, coin collectors will take a great coin regardless of its method of storage. It's the dealers and flippers who benefit from the perception of PCGS being somehow "better"...

I should state for the record, I collect both PCGS and NGC coins -- I don't really care about the brand of plastic if I like the coin, pay a fair price, and know what I'm doing before I pull the trigger.

 

There is, to me, sufficient material evidence out in the wild to convince a reasonable collector to prefer NGC over PCGS today. The problem to overcome is not the lack of differentiation, it's the existing habit of the "PCGS Premum."

 

This is soooo informative! Especially the FBL's Do you all realize that PCGS (according to their grading book) changed from two sets of lines ...the way it was always done to just the bottom set!

Also with regard to grade changes between the top services. The ONLY way to do a fair and accurate test is to send the same coin raw (more the better to level the results) to each service WITHIN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME (overnight is best but who has the deep pockets to do this test with a box of ten coins). Also, the market value/condition of the economy and thus the grade may move slightly in either direction in the long period it takes the big boys to do the economy tiers.

Also TPG's have a decision to make with each coin. Their experience makes it natural and less difficult. I'll bet that when a professional grader looks at a coin, he/she needs to consider their personal opinion, the best opinion for the company and the standard that has been set AT THAT moment in time for that particular coin series, and what the exposure ($$$) of the TPGS is for that grade. They may even know who sent the coins in (which ideally should not factor in if that were the case).

Example: So this coin has evidence of light cleaning...I see it but so what, still looks nice and most of the dummies out there will have no idea it is not original. How about: What a piece of crap, all banged-up but 200 years old. Still worth $$$ and no one will see the damaged edge in the holder.

I'm not saying this ever happens. Just trying to imagine what goes through the head of a TPG on occasion. And think about this. Each company can get a good coin into their holder w/an up grade or dump poop on the other grading service with a rejection. I've heard that NGC and PCGS rarely cross the other two services as that would prove collectors can get an honest grade on a coin much faster and cheaper. Although that does not change the "value" difference between the four major services that we all see.

 

As a silver type, government issue collector, I'd still purchase a slabbed coin if I know that it's under-priced for flipping purposes. I'd get my money back and eventually buy other coins to add to my collection.

I think that both the intrinsic and perceived values play a role in most if not all collectors' purchasing decisions.

 

Grading system is now on time table as graders have a Quote and time limit for each example.
That's what happened with Tpg today they all answer to stockholders and CEO. Sadly that today bottom line.

 

It's very easy and I'll bet it happens a lot. If you are not looking at a coin closely. TPG's need to push out product. Individual graders miss rim files, Double Dies, and even 1911-D "weak D" specimens. Let's turn this around. I'll bet we should all be surprised at the number of 1911-P's sent in by collectors as "weak D" coins...LOL. In a perfect world, no slabs would get out with "input error" labels either. Can't all the professionals tell 1892 dime from an 1892 Morgan. It's the same thing. Graders are human. Many of the coins they miss are cherrypicked anyway so be happy that accidents happen and some collectors benefit.

I need to add a funny story to this and it is true. At one major convention we walked by the PCGS table and they had one NGC $$ coin slabbed with the wrong date (mechanical/input error) displayed all by itself on black velvet in the center of the case. I don't recall if the card with it said "Not for Sale" or what. We talked to the person behind the table (don't remember the conversation) but he was cocky about the error. My friend and I left and in less than fifteen minutes returned with a PCGS slab Morgan with the wrong date to show him. I would make a good story if PCGS took that display down but I honestly don't remember what happened.

 

NGC is privately held. It's one of the reasons I prefer them; they're less likely to be a tail wagged by the shareholder dogs which is what I think is happening at PCGS.

 

I have heard/seen that so will every TPGS. Most old copper (except the higher grades) has ED, corrosion spots/surface.

 

Looks like the dealers who saw the light cleaning were correct!

 

Actually THERE ARE ABSOLUTES to grading; yet mortal men interpret the absolutes.

 

Wow! Great point and understanding of the subject.

 

I've seen this before at other services. Looks like either you sent it in requesting that it only be slabbed if it met a certain "minimum" grade OR one of the "Clucks" err... I mean "Clerks" input the coin that way ICG has a field at the right of their submission form for "Min. Grade."

 

Opps, SuperDave already answered this. Please bear with me as I like to start at the beginning of the thread and stir up trouble.

 

Any light source will work WHEN YOU KNOW WHAT AN ORIGINAL COIN SURFACE (for all the different coin types, metal, and mints) LOOKS LIKE. However, some lights are better than others. Dark rooms (grading room) help. You cannot have poor vision or be "color blind." Look at as many MS-65 and higher slabbed coins in the series you collect. With diligence, or with a good mentor, you should pick it up quickly. Most improper cleaning or surface alteration will not look "right" to a "trained" or "experienced" naked eye.

 

Monster color baby...and the prices are going even higher. That is until rich collectors decide they like "Blast white" again.

 

Well there would be the chance that PCGS would also start slowly lowering their grades to maintain their "we are stricter graders" image and the net result becomes over time a slow race for the bottom.

 

I believe an objective "collector" who has utilized the A.N.A. representative TPG since their origin, has seen the "race" suggested, and the winner is yet to be decided.

It can be shown that both TPG use subjective grading standards which result in multiple grade disparity for virtually identical coins.

I personally believe that a 3rd TPG may be a more consistent service supplier.

JMHO

 

BRG.....I don't think these 2 coins are even the same coin. The quickest look is at the chatter below the arrows in the 64. It isn't there in the pics of the 67.