PCGS refuses to grade my CHEERIOS pattern Sacajawea!

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Hunting Rare, Jun 23, 2019.

  1. Hunting Rare

    Hunting Rare Active Member

    PCGS told me on the phone, that while they agree it is a circulated reverse of 1999 pattern prototype Cheerios variety, they will not encapsulate it unless you have the original packaging from the cereal box it would of first came in.....they currently are not permitted to slab this high priced rare variety according to company policy. (#10 on PCGS Top 100 coins).......

    I told them that's impossible since it was found in circulation 18 years later.....

    They said ANACS has recently graded 3 examples all found in circulation by the same guy!!!!! One was AU55 and is the lowest graded example I know of....

    So I guess I have to send it out again but to ANACS this time, then re-submit to PCGS for crossover??

    Why do they have such a garbage policy on such a rare coin?!?!

    INSIGHT? Thanks...
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  3. paddyman98

    paddyman98 Let me burst your bubble! Supporter

    Best Answer
    Ask your grankid to help you take pictures!
  4. paddyman98

    paddyman98 Let me burst your bubble! Supporter

    I guess so..

    I'm not sure about that. What's wrong with ANACS certifying it? They are a well known and reputable TPG. Keep it in their slab!
  5. Heavymetal

    Heavymetal Supporter! Supporter

    685EBD00-C691-44A2-8D17-E0A2D28B241B.jpeg Could you post pictures of your find? What is the verifiable die guage on reverse? And welcome to Coin Talk. Larry
  6. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    If PCGS (or any other grading service for that matter) obeyed the requests of all of their customers, they would probably go bankrupt.

  7. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    Photos when you have them, please. And yes, I'd send to ANACS
    JCro57 and Hunting Rare like this.
  8. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

  9. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Here is my opinion from experience with PCGS both personal and in several stories as this. They don't want to be first on any "Discovery" coin variety and require a second example. When I sold my Uncirculated 1877/6 50c "Discovery" coin to a dealer, he returned it because they would not slab it until more were found. I'll add that the "6" can be seen with the naked eye! I'm glad that happened because I still own the coin and more have been reported.

    As for the OP's coin, I think they don't wish to risk any liability.
    ANACS and ICG (I work here) are the best services to send varieties and odd-balls to. Their graders are more knowledgeable BY VERY FAR! I will add one thing. PCGS hired Jay away from NGC and by doing that they improved 100% in this area.
  10. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Well-Known Member

    Either can slab it as the proof reverse they're not going to slab it as a Cheerios dollar without proof that it came from the Cheerios package.
  11. wxcoin

    wxcoin Getting no respect for 65 years

    Buy a box of Cheerios and use it to send the coin to the TPG.
    Chuck_A, Paul M., Cheech9712 and 7 others like this.
  12. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    This is a good point, perhaps the OP should ask for it to be slabbed as "reverse of 1999" instead.
    Stevearino and Insider like this.
  13. Hunting Rare

    Hunting Rare Active Member

    The overall population hasn't increased much since it's discovery, even with over 5,000+ specimens either in circulation or being hoarded......because it is VERY difficult to distinguish once the lines of the "detailed tail feathers" get worn away first since they are the highest point on that device....

    Luckily for me, the detailed lines are still visible somewhat......but even if the coin was in even more poor of shape, the raised middle feather, the barbed/heightened edge on the tail feathers, a specific half-u shaped device not found on the circulation strike, the well known obverse die marker under the mintmark with it's die polish/ die disturbance areas, and the die gauge I have figured out to be a useable marker are going to be your best viewing points for verification.

    But when I came across this coin I knew right away.....the strike is UNREAL.....even on my AU circulated example it makes a bright shiny BU business strike right next to it look fake like a chocolate foil candy coin!
    capthank and Paul M. like this.
  14. Autoturf

    Autoturf Well-Known Member

    So no pictures, so we can say wow?
    Chuck_A, Stevearino and Hunting Rare like this.
  15. Hunting Rare

    Hunting Rare Active Member

    I am terrible at photographing coins! Especially since I don't have a USB coin camera anymore.....so these are the best I could do on an i-phone. Good enough to see the difference and get some very good numismatic knowledge at least! You're welcome :)

    I want to share this information so you guys know what to really look for.

    I've circled the die gauge that you will find on EVERY cheerios prototype coin and NEVER on a circulation strike......and I've searched thousands of pictures of each to confirm this over a couple of years span.

    Attached Files:

  16. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    Maybe yes, maybe no!

    Hunting Rare likes this.
  17. Autoturf

    Autoturf Well-Known Member

    Let us know when you get it certified, from the pictures (possible picture quality) I would not purchase that coin. thanks for the conversation, always good for myself to research more, Yours appear to be missing features of the details. possibly due to wear. if you searched thousands of pictures of au cheerios dollars, I bet you see a lot of marks. the circle looks like contact mark, not die gauge. that's only my prospective because the critical indicators such as details in the feathers are not visible to me. I would not need to search 1000s of photos if I had a real one. its just a little um misinformed on your part to try and educate collectors about a variety we are familiar with. on an au coin.
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
  18. desertgem

    desertgem MODERATOR Senior Errer Collecktor Moderator

    These are a rarity , and yet 3 were found in circulation by the same person and all were graded by ANACs ? Gee, what are the real odds of that happening in real life events? I do think that information has left an impression on PCGS's decision.IMO, Jim
  19. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    Do you have literature that supports this claim?
  20. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    If PCGS told you they want the original packaging they are not going to do to a crossover. They already admitted as to what the coin is. They sent you to ANACS for grading. As far as they are concerned, nothing has changed.

    Sent it to ANACS and leave in their holder. They are a highly recognized and very reputable TPG.
    Paul M., Stevearino, Insider and 3 others like this.
  21. Hunting Rare

    Hunting Rare Active Member

    That's exactly what I will do! Thank you for the advice.
  22. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Derp, derp, derp!

    For Pete's sake...it's spelled GOUGE!!!
    cdubs5000, wood_ster, Chuck_A and 5 others like this.
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