PCGS "Questionable Authenticity" on 1882 $3 Gold piece

So I sent a submission into PCGS recently and it included only 5 coins and the grades came back on Thursday night. One of the coins that I sent them was an 1882 $3 Gold piece that I picked up from the coin dealer that I do business with on a regular basis. PCGS did not grade the coin and it came back with "questionable authenticity". I will admit I was a little more than annoyed about this, as I had looked at the coin and nothing about it ever struck me as being a fake. So I called PCGS today to ask them about the coin and what about it was not authentic. I don't think that this is something out of line, as this can be a valuable coin had it graded, and I spent a decent amount of money on it. So they tell me that they don't know what it was about the coin that wasn't authentic, but it wasn't and I should be satisfied with that answer. So I pressed the issue and the customer service rep tells me she'll call the grading manager and see what she can do to help me. So she gets on the phone and tells me that the grading manager said it's a common coin that comes through a lot and nobody would remember it. Wait, a common coin? They minted 1,500 of them 130 years ago!! Common is 8,774,220,000 D pennies that were minted in 2000, not 1,500 $3 Gold pieces from 1882!!!! I can't believe that the grading manager thinks my coin was a common one, I mean I do like PCGS and I have sent them plenty of coins with an average result, but cmon. I know it's not a common coin, but do you think I got that result because I'm not a large company? Also, is it unreasonable to ask them what about the coin made them say it's not authentic?

 

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I would sent off to NGC for a 2nd opinion.

I'm thinking that as low as the mintage is, there is a small possibility of your coin being fake. I'm not saying this to be offensive, but I'm erring on the side of caution.

 

Well - I would not expect them to remember every coin that comes through. In any case they could have been nicer in answering. Never had a problem myself, but people always say PCGS has bad customer service. At the same time I am just not sure what they do when they say "questionable authenticity" in the grading room. Do they write down or document why they think what it is? I would try NGC next, but prefer PCGS like you - assuming you are sure it is authentic.

 

Common may not be the right term, maybe not unique enough for the grading manager to remember after two weeks and several thousands of coins later. The only way you may get them to give you an actual answer is to resubmit and ask for specifics. Or if they set up at any shows near you, you could talk to someone face to face.

 

Each grader sees an enormous number of coins every day. They also see plenty of classic gold and many more tougher coins than one might think. Quite a few of these coins are heavily counterfeited and there are many known diagnostics for individual counterfeits as well as diagnostics for the method of production. The PCGS service reps are sometimes wonderful, but other times overstep their bounds with little knowledge. It appears you encountered the latter; this has been an ongoing issue with PCGS for many years.

It may be that the graders could tell your piece was a counterfeit even before they looked at the date, or they just might not remember the individual coin.

 

One quick question. Take a good glass and look inside the loop of the R in LIBERTY. Is there an omega there? Omega was well known for two counterfeits, the high relief 1907 double eagle, and the 1882 three dollar gold. And the 1882 is one of them most commonly counterfeited three dollar gold pieces. I'm sure they have seen more fake 1882's than were originally struck.

 

PCGS customer service is terrible, you're not alone there. I have stopped sending any coins to PCGS. All my more common coins go to Anacs, all my higher end coins go to NGC. I won't spend much time on any kind of conspiracy theories, but there's quite a few people I know (myself included) have problems with rare/high end coins going thru PCGS. It's speculated they give the coin a hard time to protect their values / pop reports. However when sent thru NGC, they grade without any issues.

I'm not saying thats the problem in your case, just letting you know that you're not alone with PCGS issues

 

Recently had a dealer tell me that maybe 30% of the pre-1933 gold he sees is counterfeit, but that he has yet to see a genuine raw $3 come into his shop. There were a LOT of counterfeit gold coins coming out of the Middle East back in the 1960s, as I understand it, and not all show up in the popular counterfeit guides; I wouldn't be surprised to hear that even trusted dealers sometimes get fooled.

 

I would pretty much agree with that dealer , probably closer to 20ish% but still a lot of counterfiets & about 3 out of every 10 $3 gold pieces Ive see have been counterfiet.

 

If I collected $3 gold I would be buying a decent reference to look up the diagnostics of them - not relying on someone else's opinion.

One thing to add about the counterfeits, one has to differentiate the numismatic counterfeits which were made to fool collectors, ie the Omega counterfeits and those Middle Eastern, probably Lebanese counterfeits from the 1950s and 1960s - the latter were made for monetary purposes in a region of the world where then they didn't trust paper money too much. They were even stamping out enough British Sovereigns that the BRM felt compelled by 1958 to start striking them again so there would be a reliable source. The Lebanese fakes were made of the proper fineness and weight of gold for the most part. They were not made to fool collectors, but rather to fool money changers.

 

I have to say that when I looked at the coin before I bought it I didn't notice anything that jumped off the coin at me that would scream fake. I looked through my loupe and such, and have bought $3 gold that has graded before, so I didn't think anything of it when I sent it out to PCGS. I should have the submission back on Monday or Tuesday and I'll look again and post it. I mean obviously I missed something here.

 

Mark_H,

I asked them the same thing and she told me that there was nothing noted as to why the believed it was a fake. Then she told me that multiple graders had looked at it and they all gave it a "questionable authenticity" mark. I find it hard to believe they just say it's a fake and don't notate as to why. That doesn't make any sense to me. I do agree that they won't remember every coin that comes across their grading area, but they should take a note or two. One would think they would anticipate people wondering why there coins are fake.

 

Simply said you are PAYING for this service. Asking for and explination of why they refused it is 100% reasonable and their refusal to give a proper answers after you have paid for the service is actionable in court as "failure to provide services paid for". Yes they can tell you it's not real as many times as they want but they DO have to tell you the Why if you ask it of them. Failure to do so is Breach of contract.

Just another reason I find myself prefering Anacs over pcgs and ngc. Yes pcgs and ngc have a more "liquid capital" value over anacs but at least anacs will take the time to explain their decisions and don't limit their certification of coins to "what is presently popular" (pcgs and ngc only cert top 100 vams as an example) They will also grade and certify problem/detail coins which pcgs won't and ngc doesn't care to. To be honest the more i hear about pcgs business practices the less likely i am to ever send a coin to them.

 

The Omegas were EXTREMELY high quality fakes. In fact, if the counterfeiters hadn't been so arrogant as to mark the dies then we may not know to this day they are fakes. I cannot remember the man's name, but a professional just knew something didn't look right to the eye, and finally was able to find this diagnostic to prove they were fakes.

These are not cheap Chinese knockoffs.

 

I spoke to PCGS a little while ago and they said they would speak to the grader who looked at the coin and see if he remembers what was wrong with the coin. I'll hold my breathe.

 

Hello Detecto,
The 1882 $3 gold coin is actually one of the most faked US gold coins. The ANA's correspondence course for diploma of Numismatics includes a mini-course on counterfeit detection. The mini-course includes a book which you get to keep for future reference. There is also a good gold coin counterfeit detection book by Bill Fivas. The 1882 is listed there also. If anyone buys an 1882 $3, I recommend that they only buy a certified example.

 

Most of us know that TPG's have tombed coins that turned out to be counterfeits, ala the Micro-O Morgans. I really want one of them in the original slab, owners of them hold them tightly because they are much more collectable now than the authentic coins. A TPG is a good idea, but not a guarantee.

 

I do not think so. If they believe it's not authentic, I think they should send an explanation with the returned coin.

I also agree, only 1500 minted, it should be somewhat memorable. Also if it is highly counterfeited, a TPG should keep records of those types of coins that pass through their hands (not just the ones they grade).

 

PCGS allegedly has a "sniffer" that records even minute details of coins for future reference, ie the holder is tampered etc. They really should have been able to look up that particular submission and should have noted what markers condemned the coin.