PCGS Premium Labels

If we had full employment and were debt free, Schiff would starve to death. I have no use for a profiteer of misery, especially one who gives out investment advice that can increase the misery for those who follow it.

 

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I'm sorry but the premium labels by PCGS and NGC, but especially the PCGS because they allow their customers to "cheat" (see so-called PCGS ANA Chicago Kennedy gold halves flown in), are the old "The Greater Fool" theory of investing, but in reverse.

In the original, it didn't matter how much one paid for a stock. You could always find a greater fool to pay even more for it.

This is the reverse - The Greatest Possible Fool is the initial collector purchaser of the premium labeled coin. It will never be worth more again, ever. I'm not talking here about the coin itself. That may go up or down, but mostly down. I'm talking about the premium paid for the special label. The first extra payment for the label is also the last. The aftermarket doesn't see any value in them whatsoever, nor should they.

I even find the gold PCGS labels on the Saddle Ridge Hoard coins way too garish and a bit cheap-looking. Do the provenance, fine, but why gimmick up the slab with a gold label? C'mon. Really?

And before someone goes all "collect what you like", of course, yes, do. But don't go into it expecting a return. It won't be there. Anyone promoting it beyond that is either profiting from it or trying to.

We have an obligation to "tell truth to the target of the scam" and no amount of highminded- sounding free market riffs will convince me otherwise. The worst scams, and the worst scammers, all hide behind free market rhetoric.

 

Many of them actually do see a premium on the aftermarket. Not every one of them, and not every special label or designation but a lot of them do sell for a premium over the standard labels.

 

inquiring minds want to know.

 

Asked & Answered in post#63. FACT: A slab with a certain label OFTEN brings more money than an identical graded coin with a generic label. This is not a difficult concept - right?

 

If you read what I said, I asked where the label enhances the value of the coin, not the sales price.

Yes, people can collect labels, and profit (or lose) by doing so, but I got into this hobby to study coins, not slabs, and their value, although important, is not the primary reason I do so.

 

Please stop this nonsense. What part of the "PACKAGE" don't you get? Package: Graded coin in a slab w/special label.

Please forgive me as I am just a stupid, ignorant, time wasting, nit-picking, idiot who should be ignored because I cannot read or understand the English language in this thread! Thanks for explaining this difficult concept to me. YOU are 100% correct, there is no "value added" once the coins are raw!

 

Insider,

Are we absolutely certain we're not morphing over into the field of autograph collecting here? I can see those having a lasting premium based on that alone, especially for "wet" signatures. I view that as a special case.

To make sure we're defining our terms, I'm talking about Early Releases, First Strikes, First Day of Issue, portrait labels like Roosevelt for Dimes, etc., other picture labels like the NGC's for ATB quarters. Do you know of any of those that actually sell, not appear on a list, for a premium? I'm genuinely interested. Of course, you have already self-reported a nexus with a TPGS, so I can't say I'm surprised by your view.

I'm not sure where I put other labels like ANA logo labels, but I do see a seller offering beaucoup 2015 ANA show labeled proof cents on an auction site, and they seem not to sell even at the minimum.

 

Thanks for getting me to look up "nexus" in the dictionary. I may be guilty as charged.

Since I don't buy, care for, or sell coins that are slabbed (except on very rare occasions); I'll plead ignorance. I'm no longer qualified (See my Post#67) to comment on what I see at coin shows and on the TV.

 

Example: I submitted 10 "moderns" to NGC at Spring ANA Dallas. One was a Sac from the C&C set, the funny finish one, and two were "leftover" single proofs I acquired in plain capsules from a junk box, obviously broken from a birth year or congrats set. All three came back in picture labeled slabs. All also came back SP/PF 70. Guess which one has the better value proposition.

I'd have preferred brown stripe slabs, but I forgot to specify.

 

Full disclosure: I'm a "cord cutter", no cable, no satellite, just broadcast. So I don't see much TV coin selling anymore. Some, quite little, due to multichannel digital broadcast, but I'd have to actively seek it out.

 

Yes there are plenty of those that sell for a premium over the generic label. First Strike and Early Release in general sell for a premium. You can find one's that don't but generally speaking if you put the same coin in a generic label and a special label the generic label will sell for less. A lot of the times it seems like the ones that lose the premium entirely are series where the lasting interest in general was bound to fade out and a lot of people predict that the early sales will do well but after that people will have moved on to the next new thing.

 

? Coin #4?

 

Okay, that explains it some. Since I'm in a persistent anti-PCGS state of mind, I'll rarely encounter a First Strike, unless I'm batting and there will soon be two more.

Curious: we ARE talking online transactions, are we not? I ask because outside of a few specialists, moderns seem to be widely reviled on bourse floors I visit.

 

It makes sense for the show floors to not be crazy about moderns since they have to be put in front of the right collector groups which generally seem to know they would have slim pickings at shows. Most coin transactions are likely online now a days between ebay, Great Collections, Heritage, Stacks, dealer websites ect. But yes you can see it online the most.

Of course there are also the groups of dealers who won't pay extra for it but will be happy to sell it for extra.

 

Previously posted about- a pedestrian 1964 Kennedy half that was at best a technical MS63 that came back MS65 because of greenish radial color.

Then there was the 1956 proof quarter at PF67CAM(star), because the obverse was Deep
Cameo but the reverse was just cameo.

 

Amen, brother!!! The real answer to the question "Does this make it worth more?" is almost all of the time "Depends if I own it or you do."

 

Very true. You see that with toned coins as well.

 

Okay, sounds like a real, if somewhat thin, submarket. There's enough of a "culture disconnect" between the brick and mortar and show dealers on one hand, and the cyber-collectors on the other (which it makes sense will be well represented on CT), to explain a lot of differing experiences.

No "large" issue of controversy in numismatics is more obvious than the varying opinions regarding modern coins. Ask any of the remaining numis-journalists - it's a BIG issue. It seems like a full blown bifurcation.

I like to collect unusually nice moderns, but not me. I expect to be worm food before they re-enter commerce.

 

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