Here’s the story: I won two auctions (Legend and Stack’s) for Liberty Seated Dollars AU-58. I sent them off to PCGS to have Crossover (because I really like PCGS’s holders). I received them BOTH back as “DNC” (Did Not Cross). See Images Below. One from Stack’s was AU-58. One from Legend was AU-58 CAC. Is this a “slap in the face” to CAC….or what! Oh…..and BTW……PCGS kept the $127.00 to view the coins and return shipping. PCGS DID NOT give a reason for the DNC decision. I’m assuming it was because they didn’t believe the coins graded AU-58. Oh the frustrations of TPGers. Footnote: I know how to grade a Liberty Seated Dollar. These coins are as near-sharp as 58’s get. What’s in the Kool-Aid over there at PCGS?
NGC, CAC and PCGS all are just giving their opinions, those opinions don't always align. Unlucky as I'm sure it's not that common for them not to cross a CAC coin but again their opinion was it fell short and CAC gets it wrong just like everyone else from time to time. I've read they are tight right now with their grades as well, I was a little disappointed with part of my submission recently as well. Two of the coins I just can't fathom how they arrived at the grade they did but that's the gamble with TPGs.
I think the same as @baseball21 . The 1866 possesses ample detail for an AU58 grade, but not enough luster. I think the coin was environmentally damaged, and then cleaned up as well as could be managed. The 1847 looks quite nice to me, but grades AU55 in my mind. I'd say exceptionally nice, but I cannot decide if I dislike what appears to be some streaky disturbance in the surface of the coin from stars 4 & 5 to stars 9 & 10. It may just be the photo, but I suspect there is something about the coin in that area that I would find disagreeable in person.
PCGS has always put themselves up on a pedestal, but I agree with them here on not crossing. Those are certainly nice coins, but AU-58 money for them would have been too strong for me.
IMHO, you should have left them in there original slabs. Easy for me to say? Not really. The 1866 is environmentally damaged. That's a weasel way of writing that it is corroded. AU-58 is a fair grade considering. The other coin is not original. Unusual toning hides old cleaning. Key to look for besides its color is the "halo effect" especially obvious around the reverse relief. It is not my business but I'll bet the price you paid was a "very good steal."
I guess I may as well weigh in here too. The '66 I'd say 55 at best. The '47, Insider might have a point on an old cleaning but I'd want to see it to agree, even so the details warrant no better than 45 IMO.
One of my main complaints with TPGs is them not stating their grade when they refuse to cross a coin. You've paid for grading, and they've graded it, so they should tell you the grade! If it doesn't cross and you really want one in the other company's holder, you have some options. 1. Crack it out and submit it raw. Big risk here is that it might come back with a much lower grade or worse, in a body bag or with a details grade. 2. If any lower grade is acceptable to you, put that on the form and submit again for crossover. 3. Sell the coin as is and use the proceeds to buy the same coin in the grade and holder you want. I've been burned enough at the crossover game that I will usually buy a coin only if it's already in the holder I want. A couple of times I've told dealers that I would buy a coin if it was in the other company's holder and pay the crossover cost. They weren't interested. Cal
I believe PCGS got it right, I'm afraid to say... The 1866 appears to be AU-53 details, environmentally damaged. The 1847 might be cleaned, but it does not appear to be AU-58 otherwise. Some people are saying 45, but the coin is weakly struck. Based on the wear I can see, I guess 50.
Of course they die, you paid for an opinion, "will this cross" and you got it No. Pretty much the same comment as above. You sent it for crossover which asks the question "Will this cross at this grade?" If the answer is no that is it. After that point what they think it will grade is immaterial. If you want to know what they think it will grade submit it for grading not crossing.
Um, let's see now. Graders examine the coin in the slab to determine if it will cross at the same grade or whatever lower grade is on the form. But they have no opinion on the grade of the coin? Right. Cal
What he's saying is cross at grade is a yes or no question for them so yes they graded them as a no. Every now and then they will give a reason like cleaning on the insert that comes back with it
Sounds remarkably like the argument used regarding problem coins not being slabbed. And even though the TPGs swore in writing and verbally, for 20 years, that they would never do such a thing - they did. Problem is, people thought they did it because of the argument, but they didn't. They did it because it made up for the lack of submissions they were experiencing due to running out of coins to grade. And that's all that crossing is, a way to get more submissions, and a quite effective way I might add. For half the time, or maybe more, they get paid without having to do anything but offer their opinion. They have no cost involved in slabbing at all and that increases their bottom line. Now no doubt, and probably sooner than later, they'll come up with a way to get you to pay them additional fees "to tell you" what their grade would be, but again without incurring the costs associated with actual slabbing. And of course you'll be no better off than ya were before. Just like you are no better off with getting your problem coins in slabs. In fact you're probably worse off. They're still problem coins, only now everybody knows it. And that in itself created another side industry in the hobby - the practice the unscrupulous use by cracking out slabbed problem coins and reselling them raw to those without the experience to recognize them. One of these days, hopefully, collectors will figure out that they are their own worst enemy. And maybe then, stress maybe, something will actually be done to put an end to the nonsense in the TPG industry and we will have fair, accurate, and consistent coin grading - across the board.
The 1847 looks cleaned from those images, and certainly not AU58-worthy details (in my opinion with limited experience of seated dollars). @VirginiaMan : I did not see it explicitly stated (maybe I overlooked it?), but which coin came from Stacks, and which coin came from Legend? If Legend was selling a coin in an NGC holder, they likely already tried the PCGS cross-over...Legend sells next to nothing except PCGS-graded coins.
Ultimate test. Send back to NGC and hopefully they are out of case and see what they regrade them it.
