PCGS made a big mistake?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by rickmp, Sep 10, 2014.

  1. Onofrio Bacigalupo

    Onofrio Bacigalupo Well-Known Member

    I agree. My parents left me a lot of American silver halves and some foreign coins that my Dad brought back from WWII, Edited: Political statement, check pm.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 13, 2014
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  3. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor Supporter

    And if they among others do not control it, we will see how well the forum does without them.
     
  4. Onofrio Bacigalupo

    Onofrio Bacigalupo Well-Known Member

    What's political about my statement, moderator?
     
  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    He sent you a PM about it, if you wish to discuss it, do so there.
     
    imrich likes this.
  6. longnine009

    longnine009 Darwin has to eat too. Supporter

    They could sell decals of The David
    for folks to put on their slab boxes. :woot:
     
    Onofrio Bacigalupo likes this.
  7. MadMartigan

    MadMartigan Active Member

    I feel its a little high, I will have to decide if its too high for me. I kind of want the HOF silver commen I just didn't get in on the ground floor waiting for the price to settle before snagging one.
     
  8. MadMartigan

    MadMartigan Active Member

    The only value I see in ngc and pcgs labels I see is when they say genuine (I know they don't say that but a Au55 grade is saying its genuine) when buying highly counterfeited coins like trade dollars.
     
  9. Vegas Vic

    Vegas Vic Undermedicated psychiatric patient

    Some of us need more help then others
     
  10. MadMartigan

    MadMartigan Active Member

    Ha my trade dollar I have in my 7070 I bought raw. Went to the coin shop 3 times, printed out a 10 page report of what to look for in genuine versus fakes and probably spent an hour and half examining it before buying it.
     
    JPeace$ likes this.
  11. Onofrio Bacigalupo

    Onofrio Bacigalupo Well-Known Member

     
  12. Onofrio Bacigalupo

    Onofrio Bacigalupo Well-Known Member

    Seigniorage: the right of the lord to mint money.. In the cas e the US Mint.
     
  13. Vegas Vic

    Vegas Vic Undermedicated psychiatric patient

    Free market: he doesn't have to buy any commemorative coin he doesn't want to or he feels are overpriced.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2014
    longnine009 likes this.
  14. V. Kurt Bellman

    V. Kurt Bellman Yes, I'm blunt! Get over your "feeeeelings".

    ...and if "everybody" doesn't buy it because it's too expensive or ugly or they don't like the theme, the secondary market price will almost surely rise.

    ... And if "everybody" had to have one right away and they buy some for themselves and some to flip, it's value will eventually crash.

    Why? Because there is a normative demand leveling factor at work - eventually demand will be driven by the collector's "need" to complete their set, whatever that means at any time.

    If "ugly" worked as a permanent demand killer, there'd be a lot fewer high value classic era commems today. Some of those are UUUUUUUG -LEEEEE!

    And most of the very few modern commems that have appreciated nicely were issued during the 1996 "that's it - I quit" semi-boycott.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2014
  15. Onofrio Bacigalupo

    Onofrio Bacigalupo Well-Known Member

     
  16. Onofrio Bacigalupo

    Onofrio Bacigalupo Well-Known Member

    I know what the free market is. I studied Economics in grad. school. I learned seigniorage from my independent study of Numismatics. You see, my friend, the Italian "Signori" were the first to use this phrase during the early Renaissance especially in Florence and Siena when they coined their own fiorini and charged the banks a fee for being able to use them.
     
  17. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Valid words.

    The current trend of buy it/flip it with modern mint products kind of started of started in 2001 with the Buff dollars. That 1 coin really showed the collecting public what could happen when everybody went ga-ga crazy over a coin. Prior to that, the rise or fall in values was mostly based on mintage numbers.

    I'll never forget the Buff dollar, for the first time in my life I actually had a problem getting an order in. The mint's web site was basically in it's infancy, it pretty much imploded that day ordering opened and stayed that way. The phone lines weren't much better. I lay in bed that night with the phone on my pillow, on hold with the mint, for over 3 hrs before my call was finally picked up. Once it was, got my order in for 5 sets, think they were about $50 per set. The sets topped out around $650 in '07.

    But 2001 was also the second year that "ugly" won out, the '97 Jackie Robinson $5 was the first. Long prior to release I picked the $5 Capitol Visitor's Center to be a flop with the public. I got my order in for 5 sets of those and yes it was a flop. And it started a steady climb in value from there, topping out at $2500 in 2011 and '12.

    But eventually the luster and appeal begins to falter in the eyes of the collecting public, and even the stars of the show drop in value once the craze wears off. Sets of the Buff dollars can be picked up for about $250 now, they've held their value better than most. The $5 Capitol Visitor's Center, a recent sale just over a week ago went for $677. Even the king of the $5 gold modern commems, the '97 Jackie Robinson, has dropped from a high of $4300 in 2008 to under $1500 today.

    So people, when you want to know what is going to happen tomorrow, just remember, "the answers lie waiting in the echoes of time".
     
    JPeace$ and Ethan like this.
  18. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    They may have been the first to use the phrase, but the practice began long before that. Gold, silver, even copper coins were always minted with slightly less metal than their face value. And they had to be. For not only did the slight debasement allow the minting authority to profit from the minting of coins, he always had to pay those doing the actual work of the minting.
     
  19. MadMartigan

    MadMartigan Active Member

    Very true the ones I am missing from my modern commem half set are the 1996 commens. The reason being I don't like the price of them for $40 I could get the swimming commem or a coin I like more or something for my 7070. So the 1996 commens always end up losing.

    And yea there are some truly ugly classic commens that go for high prices.
     
  20. Onofrio Bacigalupo

    Onofrio Bacigalupo Well-Known Member

     
  21. Onofrio Bacigalupo

    Onofrio Bacigalupo Well-Known Member

    Your highness, the Great Moderator. Banking also started in Italy hence the word "bank" from the Italian "banco" meaning bench because bankers violated the usury laws and had to sit outside. Also double entry bookkeeping (accounting) was invented by the Italian monk Luca Pacioli.
     
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