PCGS Grading Experience.

Please separate coin collecting from speculative investments. If you have to rely on your coins as a means of emergency cash, perhaps you are better off keeping it in cash in the first place. Coins are NOT investments, but collectables. If you want an investment, I suggest oil company stocks etc.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

I do not want to be offensive in any way; however, if you think coins are not a form of investment you are mistaken.

Tell that to the families and individuals who have sold multi-million dollar collections.

As for keeping your money in cash..... My opinion is that holding cash merely gives the goverment a chance to pilfer your wealth.

To me gold and silver is money.

Also, I never suggested that anyone rely on their coin collection for emergencies, or their 401k for that matter, but that is not the point. The point is even a 401k can be liquidated.

One last point... if you think that coin collecting is not a form of speculative investments you are also sadly mistaken, and you are also misleading yourself and others by not realizing that this is the truth.

All you have to do to realize this FACT is to have bought some gold or silver coins in the early 80's and or the late 80's / early 90's. Coin values fluctuate like any other financial/ commodity market.

If you buy, and never sell, you may not care about market fluctuations, but this does not mean they don't exist.

IMO if your collection is worth over 1k it is a type of investment.

Furthermore, coin collecting is many things to many people. You can gain plenty of enjoyment from it, and you can make lots of moeny doing it.

Try to tell all the people on this forum that the many thousands of dollars that they have spent on coins has no intrinsic value whatsoever, and see how they feel about their "investments". Maybe they will get some "collectible bobble-head dolls" instead.

Unlike stocks, fiat money, and collectables, gold and silver are actually worth something. If you don't believe they are investments it's your loss, not mine.

 

Coins are a bad soruce of investment IMHO. As it has been said over and over again---the coin market is not something to invest it. That is not to say that people haven't made money on coins....but without alot of knowledge and research, it can be deadly.

Either that or people just don't know how to grade. I would submit that the TPG's aren't getting tighter....but that alot of new collectors are playing the game without doing their homework. Therefor they get an MS63 and think that it must be higher. When it isn't they blame the TPG...when the blame really goes right back to them for not doing their research and learning to grade.

Speedy

 

What you said is not untrue, but I think any investment can be bad when the investor is the one truely making the mistakes. The stock market can be a bad investment if you invest in the wrong stock. The coin market is the same way. During certain times different types of coins may be on the move more than others.

Look I can buy genric pre-1933 gold coins all day from different sources for an extremely low markup over the spot price of gold, get them certified, and instantly make $80-$100 per coin even when they are not in MS. Right now is a good time for that because people are buying gold. When the spot price goes up there is an added benefit, but there is also a tiny collector cushion built into generic pre-1933 gold. Gold American Eagles in VF30 would be hard to sell even at spot price(not that I actually come accross them), but this is not so with Quarter, Half, Eagles, and Double Eagles. Even non-collectors would rather have them when they buy gold coins because they are "nostalgic", and yes many non-collectors buy gold coins as stores of wealth. Also when the gold price goes up, these coins move up in price at a slightly higher rate, and at certain times have traded for a hefty premium over the spot price.

I am not advocating people use this strategy, but it is working form me, and just an example of how "investing" can work. If the gold price hits the floor I would definately not be making any money doing this; however it might be a good time to buy and hold pre-1933 generic gold, or maybe buy some other type of gold coins that suffered because of the drop. Like I said just an example of a way to invest, and their are a ton of other ways people make moeny in coins.

Obviosly the crack out game works for some people. I really don't do that often because I actually believe that the TPG's are more consitent than they have been in the past, and most of the PQ coins in the old holders are hard to come by these days. The old holders is where people made alot of money because the TPG's were more strict in their first couple of years.

Some coins like Indian Head gold peices are very hard to grade by design, and a lot of people are still tryng to exploit that weakness.

Another example of making money in the market condition of the day is the whole state quarter/ presidential dollar thing. I mean come on.... people have made millions off of super high availability items. These coins are not rare AT ALL. My opinion is within the next couple of years people are going to realize it is going to have to be a millenia before these coins are ever worth anything.

I used to go to the bank, get rolls of presidential dollars, and sell them to the local COIN SHOP for a small profit. I would just turn this into ASE's I invest in silver.

Blah Blah on and on

 

I hate to even post this but I have two coins the were damaged by PCGS is their grading process. One coin received a large spot on the obverse and is MS69 [looks like a sneeze droplet], the other is an MS70 with a smudge/scratch that wasn't present when sent. So things can happen from the time a coin is being cracked out all the way until it is finally put in a new slab and that is part of the gamble.

 

isn his name rhoggman?

 

If you think what I'm saying is untrue, try it. The cold content of of a half eagle is worth about $218. A $5 Indian type coin in VF30 can sell for about $275 - $325 slabbed by PCGS/ NGC. However, you can buy them all the way up into AU for about the same price if you purchase them raw. You can definitely make money but you have to put forth the time, effort, and money.

Also, just because I say something can be done, doesn't mean I do it all day either. Plus you have to realize if you want to make a living doing stuff like this things get a little more complicated. If you do it for fun, or to increase the size of your collection (like I do), no one pays attention. If you make it your livelihood Uncle Sam is going to breath down your neck. That means paperwork, headaches, and more paperwork.

 

I already do it.

 

Follow Up PCGS Grading Experience

Well, I guess the members are correct here. About the only thing consistant about PCGS is inconsitancy. I resubmited all 14 coins back to PCGS and only 2 of them came back with the same grade. I was upset because one coin in Particular, a 1907 Saint graded MS65 in an NGC slab came back as MS64 my first time around. This time it came back as MS66. I am really surprised but don't know why I should be. After all, the reason I cracked out the NGC MS65 was because I thougt it was undergraded in the first place. When I it came back as MS64 by PCGS I was actually beginning to think that perhaps PCGS is just more strict. I was also upset to lose my MS65 grade. Now i'm happy with the MS66(it really looks like it belongs in an MS66 slab.) but really have lost faith that PCGS could change 2 point on one coin. The difference in Price from a 1907 MS64- MS66 Saint is simply too much money to play games with. I wonder if paying 100 dollars per coin had anything to do with it? I was so upset with my downgrade from my first experience that I could not wait to see if I could recoup my losses. I really find it said if the same day walk-through service had any bearing on my assigned grades.

I know the main reason that PCGS coins carry a premium over NGC is due to keeping a low population. In the case of 1907 Saints in Gem and above, NGC actually has a much smaller pop. I wonder why an NGC coin would not command a higer price tag if it had a lower pop than one in a PC slab?

 

thats my line you owe me royalty of one morgan dollar

 

So, are you factoring in your time and the slabbing/shipping costs?

Also, I hope you are paying taxes on those earnings.

Take care...Mike

 

Fascinating! Thanks for the update, and congrats on your upgrade!

How did you do on the rest of the coins?

 

1. PCGS is winning the publicity game and
2. What GDJMSP said^^

 

Either you're older than I think or Spock is younger than I think...

 

I do pay taxes and write off my expenses when I sell on ebay. I think you only have to pay taxes(at least that is what i was told by an accountant) when u actually make money. Such as when a coin is sold you pay a capital gains tax. Then U can also write off grading and postage fees as well. It does get hard thought as some of my coins I have had for several years and don't know what I paid for them. The IRS is a pain in the edited in my humble opinion.