PCGS Grading advice

Very good, mhinchley.
It's called a "split grade", and is widely used among collectors to accurately describe their coins.

 

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Years ago, this proceedure of grading coins based on both sides of the coin was common place. As standards changed, more one system grading became common place. The obverse of the coin being given more preferrence than the reverse. The thought began as more collectors viewed the obverse through albums or sets. It is still the obverse that receives the primary place in holders, albums, and slabs. With the exception of the StateHood Quarters.
Many people did not care for the split grade, because of price structures. When veiwing a MS-63 obverse, you want to pay MS-63 prices.
This type of thought really took off in the third grading explosion of the 1980's. More people sought out slabbed coins as a protection method. As sharp increases of price between grades began to happen, the grading of both sides were incorporated into a single overall grade.
Many early US coins will exhibit quite a bit of wear on one side, while virtually none on the other. If split grading were still common place, it would create a new bidding system.
Now in contrast, we will charge more if the reverse is sharply struck. Many of the Morgan dollars produced at the branch mints are famous for their weak reverse strikes. So if the graders would split the grade, you may get serious differences and this would cause a slight stir. As an example, an 1883-S Morgan has a current bid of $2960. in MS-64. Now if the coin were split graded as MS-63 Obverse and MS-65 reverse, what would the bid level be? At MS-65 the current bid level sits at $16000. While in MS-63 bid would be $1650. So you can see what difference a point makes.
Now if you flip flopped the coin, and the obverse made the 65 grade while the reverse falls to 63, what would a fair bid be?
The grading system with all of its downfalls, is still a lot better than it used to be. More confusing yes, but still better.
Many older collectors remember the days of Good, Fine, Extremely fine, and uncirculated. It left a lot to be desired.

 

I use those grades, i must admit they suit my purposes to a T, i don't collect UNC coins as a rule. I'm EXTREMELY lucky if i get to AEF or GEF let alone AUNC, or UNC.

Although i do have quite a few modern BU coins, but i don't usually go for those as a rule.

 

There is nothing wrong with the grades as a whole. The basic problems came along when the owner of the coin saw the grade one way, and the buyer another.
Yes it still happens today.
I see many collectors today that carry a photograde book with them during the shows. This is wonderful for those attempting to learn grading skills. You can place the coin next to the photo and ask why the coin has the grade it does.
99% of the people out there cannot consistently grade unc coins. Especially in the upper tiers. If someone can actually show me the difference between a MS68 and MS70 I would love to see it.
With that said, many VF coins fall into different degrees of VF. Some with a good bit of luster, some with virtually none. Yet both will grade VF.
A good observer will learn the little differences and take advantage of them.

Q. David Bowers has been writing a lot about this system of grading in Coin World as of late. I would recommend everyone take a few minutes to read what this man has to say. CoinWorld can usually be found at any coin shop, if you do not subscribe to it.

 

Well my rule has always been, if i come across two UNC coins then i usually get the better looking one of the two, they are usually the same price anyhow, but on occasions you have to pay a few quid extra for the nicer eye appeal, but we as collectors (and the dealers) don't bother distingushing between a lower UNC and a middling UNC, it's just UNC as far as we are concerned, and they sell for the same price generally.

Which means some of you USians could make a killing over here shipping coins over to the US and grading them as MS whatever and getting a huge price jump between one grade and the next.

I remember one coin dealer had a William IV sovereign graded by PCGS no less, as AU58, the dealer was selling it at EF prices because he thought the grade on the holder was just way off. I asked what grade he thought it was, he said it's a good EF but nothing as good as AUNC.

He's been in the trade for the past 35 years so who was i to argue?

 

And I would advise anyone that walks into a coin shop or coin show, with the intention of buying coins, to carry their copy of "A.N.A. Grading Standards" or "Photograde" with them.
An honest seller won't take offense, and it might save you from making a costly mistake.


Great advice sir. Informed customers make the best customers. Take along a greysheet when buying or selling at the coin shop. If you don't have one, ask the dealer. Most will not mind at all.

 

Well there are a handful of us (dealers) that make regular trips across the pond to buy US coins. Mostly gold as a lot of these were shipped to europe in the 30's and 40's. I guess you don't get too many slabbed coins in your area of the world. This would explain the dealers not agreeing with the holder. Always trust your dealer. (as long as you know him). The grading standards have changed so frequently that it is difficult to stay on top of them.

 

My coin dealer (the one with the William IV sovereign) has handed me over one of his own book that he'd had for sale before, and i looked a coin he'd got for sale up before his nose and he never blinked an eyelid! Infact he was very helpful and helped me through it! Now that's a damn good dealer!

 

Sorry about jumping on your comment jody. It wasn't done on purpose.

 

You made much profit on them? I mean i bet the UNC ones sell at the lower end of you MS prices?

Got any MS65s for MS62 money for example?

 

Usually the differences aren't that great. There are many brokers in England that deal specifically with US dealers in getting the material properly graded. Most of the coins pick up a point, sometimes two. But once you add in the cost of the trip, and grading fees, and all of the other minor costs incurred, it usually breaks even.
Short of digging up buried treasure, there are no short cuts that will make you rich.

 

Good job i'm not in it for the money then, i've probably lost more money on coins over the years than i care to admit to, most of that from buying junk when i first started out, other bits from having to sell to dealers.

But it doesn't bother me in the slightest, cos i know i would have wasted that money elsewhere where it wouldn't have given me half as much enjoyment, so any money i do lose on a coin when i have to sell it, i just say that was balanced out by the fact that i had the pleasure of owning the coin for as long as i did.

When you buy a television you don't expect to sell it for a profit ten years down the line, so why should coins be any different for the average collector? i'm usually happy enough to get back what i paid for it. As you can tell i just love what i do...

 

That is a great attitude sir. These collector coins were here before most of us, and will be here long after we go. So what price can you put on happiness?

 

The greatest pleasure is the feeling of holding a piece of history, knowing some guy sat there laboriously making the die with his engraving tools, then after it's minted the coin goes out into circulation through countless hands, you can hold so much history in your hand all at once. And as well as the pleasure of holding the history you are also holding the future for generations to come. Imagine 300 years from now as someone has the coin you once held and admired sat in their own hands, and they wonder the same questions about it, that you wondered, and perhaps these are the same questions that a guy 300 years before you wondered!

That's what i love so much about the older medieval stuff. When they were minted there were still the days of feudalism, knights, peasants, the Black Death and other such 'wonderful' things, castles and stuff like that. The question of how did this coin survive all that, how did it pass down through the generations unscathed? when great castles have vanished and been destroyed, theaters called The Globe have burned down, Ships have sank, and yet this little round metal disc has withstood all this!

Truely amazing!

 

I have two answers for this. If the coins are solid, I will crack and submitt, however, if the coin that needs to be cracked is in say a NGC holder with a already nice value to it, I will try a cross.

So to me, it depends on the coin and also on its potential value....