PCGS Grading advice

I have a couple slabbed coins. I plan to submit them to PCGS for cross grading (one from ICG and one from ACCGS). Now, would you submit these in the current holders, or would you crack them out first and submit them? I have heard through the rumor mill that PCGS nearly always cross-grades a level down when cross grading, in a effort to prove their superior grading standards? Anyone have any experience with this issue?

 

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I submit thousands of coins a year to PCGS and NGC for grading. Both raw and crossover submissions. I have never found PCGS to care one way or another how the coin is submitted. Is the coin you listed as ACCGS = ACG?

 

Link to ACCGS

 

No. I do not deal with Accugrade coins. ACCGS is a rather new company in Beverly Hills CA. http://www.accgs.com Just testing them out at this point. The one rather unique thing about them is they grade both sides of a coin rather than averaging the two sides for one grade.

 

Great job Jody. I have never before heard of this grading service. I took a few minutes to read through their website and found a few interesting facts.
1. They claim to do so well on Ebay. So does ACG.
Not that Ebay is such a bad thing, but not a true market indicator.
2. They have a guaranteed selling and buying of their coins through their clubs.
This would cause me to worry a little bit. Their statement that they are not in the collectibles market followed by their club members buying and selling seem a bit contradictory.
I do however like the idea of grading both sides of the coin. This idea is not a new one, but still holds some preferrence with a lot of collectors.
Looking at their record prices realized, doesn't do much for me either. They seem to fall right in line with market prices.
Now I do not want to give the impression that they are a bad service as I have had no dealing with them. As far as I am aware, I have never seen a coin in their holder at any show or auction that my firm has ever attended.
If mhinchley decides to crossover this particular coin into a PCGS holder, I would love to know the results.
Now I do not believe that PCGS is the strictest in the industry, but their holders are the most liquid.

 

That is sound practice for the most part. Buying ACG coins is a certain risk for most collectors. The collector must really know their grading skills to be safe in the market place. With that said, many ACG coins can be bought at significant discounts by dealers and collectors that do not know how to grade properly and market the coins accordingly. All of this boils down to buying the coin and not the holder.
Now our firm recommends that collectors stay within the PCGS, NGC, and Anacs grading services as a somewhat safe bet. Now I know there are other services that are making positive moves within the market, but these three we have found to be as consistent as any.
None are perfect, they are just a group of individuals trying their best.

 

Yes ND, the link was purely for informational purposes. I can't recommend one TPGS over any other.
I don't sell coins, nor do I have mine graded, but it is my understanding that those certified by PCGS sell for a little more than similar ones certified by NGC.
Personally, the only reason I would buy a coin, certified by a TPGS, would be for purposes of authentication, where counterfeiting would be an issue. As far as the grading goes, I would feel comfortable doing that myself.

 

I wish more were like you Jody. This habit of buying holders is getting worse as new collectors make their way into the hobby. Now I don't blame the services, as they certainly have their place, and for the most part do a good job. We included a coin guide on our website to let collectors know how we feel about grading services. I recommend that all key date coins be authenticated. The risk is too high not to. I have been fooled by forgeries, and will probably be so again. Most services will state the same thing.
This wonderful hobby has something for everybody, but we did lose a little something in the great third party grading explosion.
It allows people to be lazy.

 

Now our firm recommends that collectors stay within the PCGS, NGC, and Anacs grading services as a somewhat safe bet. Now I know there are other services that are making positive moves within the market, but these three we have found to be as consistent as any.
None are perfect, they are just a group of individuals trying their best.[/QUOTE]

I personally prefer ICG, but as you stated, PCGS brings more money. As with Accugrade, I have found that for some reason, ICG coins can be had at a substatially lower cost than PCGS or NCG. I have also found ICG to be very consistant in their grading practices, so I often seek out their coins......hence my plan now to cross-grade with PCGS. Since I purchase the majority of coins I acquire through the net, and do not have the opportunity to view them, I prefer them to be graded by on of the top 4, so I have an idea what I am getting. If in person, I could then determine the grade myself, but that is not generally the case. Or if from a reputable dealer, which I do acquire some from time to time in that fashion. I will let everyone know in the forum the results of the cross-grade when I get the coins back from PCGS.

 

Thanks sir. I would be very interested in the results. We purchase coins in all holders. Our buyers go through grading classes through the ANA and our own in house program. Many coins can be cherry picked through all the services. Especially the older holders, as the services have adjusted their standards again. ICG is a good service, and we buy their coins regularly. It seems that their standards are pretty strict now. If they continue to practice these standards, we will review our opinions. PCI is another good one to watch for. Most dealers will classify their coins as "Poor Coin Inside". We routinely use their two hour service at the shows for authentication purposes. Their standards aren't quite as strict, so you can't rely on the grade, but you can on whether or not it is real. With the quick turn around times, it is a great little service.
Now our firm will sell IGC coins on very rare circumstances. It is usually on Bullion pieces that trade at set levels anyways.
Since we are in the business of buying and selling coins, we must adhere to what the market wants.

Despite our personal views on the subject.

If you frequently trade in slabbed coins, get a copy of the BlueSheet. They list values for the sight unseen market for slabbed coins, by grading service. It will give you a better idea of how dealers rate the services.

 

I pulled this market indicator off of the greysheet website.

the COIN DEALER Newsletter Certified Coin Market Indicator™: SERVICE LOW HIGH AVERAGE
PCGS 58.80% 94.07% 82.70%
NGC 59.51% 105.00% 83.73%
ANACS 31.31% 87.15% 56.99%
ICG 61.97% 95.83% 85.32%
PCI 38.04% 71.67% 56.32%
SEGS 40.22% 81.51% 55.84%
NCI 18.24% 62.40% 33.53%
INS 16.33% 60.09% 31.43%

No. 10 March 5, 2004 ~ ©CDN Inc.

 

That would be fine by me, because I personally don't like the exploitation of the $100 a year membership fee, just to be able to PAY for their services. I think they make enough money without the annual "gift" per submitter.

 

Now that PCGS has been shed of the auction services, maybe they will take their membership fees into consideration.

 

Slabbing coins has the possibly unintended side effect of turning the art of grading into science. The biggest benefit of this trend is to investors who can buy up fine examples of rare coins without having any knowledge of numismatics or any real interest in that discipline.

Having rarities become investment material for those outside the hobby seriously distorts the market for collectible coins and can only serve to harm the hobby as it becomes more prevalent.

That's just my view. Your mileage may vary.

 

I have a copy of the blue book and red book among others. Now for ACCGS. Well this first attept did not go well. I received their MS65/MS65 1878 CC yesterday. The reverse was indeed to me a 65....but the obverse had a rather deep scratch at 1 o'clock about 1/8 inch in lenght, besides what appeared to be a couple knicks on the outer rim edge (hard to tell in the slab). It also had a few too many scuff marks and ticks overall on the obverse. It was atleast a rather lustrious coin, with a solid strike, but that is all I can say in the positive of the obverse anyway. I returned the coin to the place I purchased from immediately. I should have scanned it, but I was too ticked off in the moment. They offered to down grade a MS66 to "meet my stricter standards", rather than refund, if I so chose. I have mixed feelings, but for the sake of knowing the results, I agreed on a one time basis. If I don't accept, and decided to return the next, my business with them will cease. Any hopes of ever using the grading service were dashed all together already, but they are seperate from the business in which I made the purchase of the coin (as far as I know anyway). Other bad news, I sold the ICG 1880-S ICG MS67 I was going to have cross graded by PCGS, so that is a mute issue. I did just buy an ICG MS65 1897-S. If that does not sell within a week or so I will have that one cross graded along with some raw coins I have. So will let you know when the events unfold. I buy ICG coins all the time, since they are undervalued in my opinion...so eventually I will get some of them cross graded.

 

Well thank you for keeping us informed.

 

What do you mean by that? I mean there's a way of grading a coin by not looking at both sides? Were you being sarcastic there and i've just missed it or what?

 

No, no. They actually grade each side seperately. The obverse could grade at MS64, the reverse at MS 66. Most companies average that out and would assign a MS65 per-say, where this company would list grade as MS64/MS66.

 

OH RIGHT I GET YOU NOW! Yes i do like the latter idea, i have been known to grade like that on occasions!