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Message:: [QUOTE="GDJMSP, post: 1376491, member: 112"]Ya know, I was willing to let it die, but you insist continuing. Yes, it is. It is exactly about that. Granted, I was wrong in my comments about roll friction. But then I have no problem admitting when I am wrong Paul. But I have yet to ever see you do so.  Yup, I did. Because I saw no sense in trying to prove a point to someone that refuses to listen or even use their own eyes. No, not at all. Just because that's what you choose to think I meant does not mean it is what I meant.  Absolutely correct. I do think those 2 coins should be graded the same. Again, you are correct. I most certainly do have different grading standards than the TPGs. And never once have I ever claimed anything BUT that. But that does not change the fact that the TPGs do not even follow their own grading standards. There is no consistency. That was true to a limited extent in years past, but it has gotten progressively worse. As to you disagreeing with me, and the market disagreeing with me, yeah I know that. But to me the question is why you disagree ? Do you really mean to tell me that if you saw the 2 coins you pictured raw that you would not grade them the same ? If you do claim that I'm sorry but I don't believe it, not for a minute. And that's my point. You see, I believe that you, and the market are doing nothing but accepting the opinion of the TPGs. If they say it is so, then that is good enough. I know you claim to have disagreed with their opinion before, but I cannot recall you ever doing so. But maybe you have, You undoubtedly know yourself better than I do. The primary difference between you and the market, and me, is that I have no problem speaking up and disagreeing with grades assigned by the TPGs when I honesty believe that the TPG screwed up. The reason the market doesn't do it, at least not publicly, is because they know that there are enough suckers out there that will buy the plastic and ignore the coins. Why you don't do it I don't know. You have the knowledge, you have the experience, you have eyes and you can see. So the only thing I can think of is that you would rather trust their judgement than you would your own. Do you really have that little confidence in yourself ? But your comments and your correction of my comment about roll friction did cause me to do something else. And those 2 coins you posted do an excellent job of illustrating the point. That is what PCGS says about roll and bag friction - they lump the terms together. They say - "When coins rub together in a a bag or a roll, the highest points of the coins come in contact with each other and may "break" the luster slightly." Now perhaps the common place to ever see this is on Morgan dollars. Pretty much everybody knows what that looks like, I call them frost breaks. Though not technically the correct term, frost breaks does a good good of describing what we see when we look at a frosty Morgan and see those breaks in the frost on the face. It is acknowledged and readily accepted that those marks were caused by the coins rubbing against each other in the bags - not from the coin being in circulation. I completely agree with that. But PCGS goes on to say - "Upon observing real wear, one notices the brown or grayish look as opposed to the bright look of coin against coin friction." "Friction from circulation discolors the knee, where coin on coin contact is still silvery looking." Now people with an open mind can read those descriptions, and then look at the OP's coin, and the coins you posted. Then decide for themselves. People who wish to trust the TPGs can choose to ignore those descriptions and the coins, and believe the TPGs. Me - I prefer to trust my own eyes. And I'm trusting my own eyes based on what PCGS says Paul - not on my own grading standards <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie2" alt=";)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />[/QUOTE]

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