PayPal No Longer Returning Fees from Refunds!

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by iPen, Sep 20, 2019.

  1. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    For you sellers out there, this will be detrimental. Say you sell a coin for $1,000. PayPal will charge 2.9% + $0.30. That's a total PP fee of $29.30 - that's all well and good, and expected. However, beginning on October 11, if the buyer returns the item for a full refund, you will not be receiving the $29 (2.9%) back. Before it was just the $0.30 per transaction fee that PP kept regardless of whether or not there was a refund.

    This is an untenable business decision. How does PP expect to keep their business with such an outrageous business model? Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't credit card companies also refund vendors the CC transaction % fee upon refunds? Profit-wise, I'm sure that at the beginning, lots of folks will unwittingly lose money from refunds; so PP may have a noticeable short-term uptick on profits. But, businesses of all sizes are rational and will eventually stop using PP altogether.

    That said, what are some alternatives to PP on eBay?

    Here's the user agreement I received from PP:

    Earlier this year, we notified you that we were updating our User Agreement to change our refund policy. We want to let you know that the policy change is going into effect beginning on October 11, 2019.

    In line with industry practice and according to our updated policy, we will not charge a fee to process refunds, but the fees from the original transaction will not be returned. This policy will not apply to duplicate transactions, voids and most disputed transactions. You can review the PayPal User Agreement for more information on our return policies.

    We only adjust our policies when we are confident the changes are fair and aligned with the value that our services provide to your business.

    PayPal brings you more than just payment processing – your business has access to our platform’s full suite of tools, products and support built to scale with you, such as customized invoicing to help you get paid sooner, access to business loans, world class fraud monitoring, seller protection for eligible transactions, and business services designed to simplify your day-to-day operations.

    PayPal invests in bringing you buyers – with over 268 million active account holders worldwide, PayPal works hard for your business to make sure we continue to bring your buyers the shopping experiences they have grown to associate with our brand. PayPal is the most-used digital wallet** and PayPal shoppers complete their checkout 88% of the time on average, helping you close more sales.+

    If you have questions about any of these changes or your account, please don’t hesitate to get in touch with us.

    Thank you for being a PayPal customer. We appreciate your business and look forward to continuing to help you grow and succeed in the future.

    The team at PayPal
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
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  3. UncleScroge

    UncleScroge Active Member

    Best Answer
    Wow! Un-frekin'-believable.
  4. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    idiots, that is just not right
    xCoin-Hoarder'92x, iPen and LA_Geezer like this.
  5. masterswimmer

    masterswimmer Well-Known Member

    Family and Friends or no sale.
  6. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    That's a lot money for PP to start keeping.
    Can you do that on an ebay auction payment?
  7. masterswimmer

    masterswimmer Well-Known Member

    I doubt it. I don't do the ebay thing, so I can't speak to that.
  8. I read this change in eBay's return policy a few days ago, too. I certainly hope someone can see the injustice and unfairness in this decision and walk it back.
    iPen and LA_Geezer like this.
  9. LA_Geezer

    LA_Geezer Well-Known Member

    I am reluctant to agree with this tactic. I can only imagine that some algorithm will detect this and cancel the seller's account. Moreover, it seems to me that a refund to a Family and Friends transaction would seem preposterous.

    I hate PayPal, but when I buy items on ebay I set up my account so that the item is paid for via credit card; yet, eBay sends this to PayPal whether I like it or not. I don't think eBay is at all interested in their customers, though.
  10. Libby007

    Libby007 Member

    Question: Is there an alternative payment available for eBay purchases? I've tried "will accept personal checks, money orders or bank transfers" only to have eBay shut down my listing until I remove those options.
    iPen likes this.
  11. FooFighter

    FooFighter Just a Knucklehead Coin Hunter

    Wow I cant believe that!!!
    iPen likes this.
  12. PlanoSteve

    PlanoSteve Supporter! Supporter

    They're not. Once the "Law of Large Numbers" kicks in, they don't have to worry about Customer Service, because it doesn't apply - no amount of good service or bad service will impact their money stream. That happened a while ago.
    Kasia and Player11 like this.
  13. Add an extra 3% to the base price . I have been thinking about opening an ebay store if I do I will cover my back side by adding 5% of the asking price . I also think you will see a great deal of No Returns All Sales Final . IMHO . Only time will tell .
  14. PlanoSteve

    PlanoSteve Supporter! Supporter

    PayPal operates like an insurance company - the many pay for the shortcomings of a few. And they use the "value added" argument to justify it, but the truth is, most people don't use these added services (think cable TV, & the many channels you have to get but don't watch).

    Their ploy may be more palatable if they reduced their initial fee, but you know they won't do that.

    I haven't used PP in over 2 yrs & have no intention to go back. I don't sell anymore on ebay, & the few purchases I do make now, I only use CC's.
  15. UncleScroge

    UncleScroge Active Member

    Now they have CC apps for your phone, so you shouldn't have to use PP, unless of course, you're dealing with eBay. Look into Square, Shopify or PayAnywhere for example.
  16. lehmansterms

    lehmansterms Many view intelligence as a hideous deformity

    Since paypal is a subsidiary of ebay, it's hardly surprising that they are trying to maximize their income from the "partnership" by creating a system to "get you, coming and going".
    Neither has ever been known for extending particularly good care to their customers or for accepting clearly unusual circumstances as a reason not to apply whatever most profitable set of rules they happen to be operating under at any given time.
  17. Ebay is perhaps another example of an industry where the existing company has a monopoly. No need for eBay to worry about a competitor who can provide the services more efficiently and at a cheaper price, because there is none.
  18. lehmansterms

    lehmansterms Many view intelligence as a hideous deformity

    Paypal has already hit me with a small fee for using "Friends and Family" for a domestic purchase from a private (not corporate or advertised) person who is, in fact, my friend. I was in a hurry and didn't check to see if it may have been sales tax added, although it didn't proclaim the fee to be sales tax (Massachusetts buying from Wisconsin - both have comparably low-ish sales tax rates).
    They're probably well aware that better-informed users have for years told those sending them payments that they "prefer friends and family payments", but it surprises me not in the least that ebay/paypal is doing whatever they can think up to eliminate that loophole.
  19. Jim Dale

    Jim Dale Active Member

    I've been with ebay since they were a mom and pop's business. I don't have to have ebay in my life. The only things I have been buying through ebay has been for coins. I have about 200 models of airplanes that are still in boxes as well as some precious "hi-fi" equipment that I was going to list through ebay. I don't have to sell except my wife wants me to so that she can use the area for her hobbies. It ain't gonna happen now. I'm going to close my PayPal account.
  20. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    PayPal and eBay have been divorced for a number of years now. I had PayPal stock, which converted to eBay stock when eBay bought PayPal, then split when eBay spun PayPal back off.

    eBay will soon be encouraging members to use a different service instead of PayPal. When they announced that, eBay stock spiked, and PayPal dipped. I sold my eBay stock into the spike, and bought more PayPal with the proceeds; it was one of my very few successful market-timing efforts.

    This decision might well be good for PayPal's stock price in the short term -- more profit! -- but I have to think merchants will desert them in droves if this applies across the board.
    LakeEffect and iPen like this.
  21. LA_Geezer

    LA_Geezer Well-Known Member

    EBay has evolved since the late '90s, but that was before they acquired PayPal. I would offer a 10% discount if the buyer paid by money order. Personal checks got no discount, and the buyer had to wait a week for his check to clear my bank. I required PayPal only of my many customers in Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore.

    EBay is ruthless; they'll shut down a seller and keep his money in many instances, especially when a cheating customer makes a claim. I lost a $2000 rare, vinyl record to such an overseas customer.
    iPen likes this.
  22. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    Can someone please let me know what the best payment alternatives are to set eBay listings to? I want to change it on 10 October, the day before it happens. IIRC, buyers can simply enter/save credit or debit card details directly and not even use PayPal altogether.
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
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