Owning counterfeit money

I recently attended an estate auction with plenty of coins, and other assorted nicknacks. One of the things they were selling was a lot of about 10 coins that were in flips, labelled as counterfeit. they were mostly walking halves and seated dimes. I didn't buy any because my first thought was, " It's illegal to own and sell counterfeit coins." An individual bought the lot for about $35. He can't do anything with that, but keep it and not tell anybody. Right?

 

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Yeah, right. Soon to be coming to an eBay near you, lol.

 

I don't believe that simple possession of counterfeit coin or currency is a crime. Attempting to pass it as genuine is a crime.

 

I own a 1859-O counterfeit dollar. I don't plan on selling it but use it to show myself how good some fakes are.

 

Though some on this forum insist that it is, I agree with Rick, as do others.

"..no court in the U.S. has ever ruled that possession of counterfeits of collectable coins is illegal. What's more, at least two circuit courts have ruled that possession of counterfeit coins without intent to defraud doesn't violate the section of the U.S. Code on counterfeiting U.S. coins (United States v. Cardillo, 708 F.2d 29 [1983], and United States v. Ratner, 464 F.2d 169 [1972])..."

Read more here:
http://coinsguide.reidgold.com/counterfeits.html

 

Henning nickels come to mind, and can be legitimately (apparently) sold on eBay. Here's some completed listings:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=henning+nickel&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc

 

I purchased a fake 1894s Morgan back during the summer. Some poor guy got suckered into buying 200 of them @ $20 a piece. Its a lost wax casting in nickel. Very well done but under the scope, you can see the air bubbles. I'm sure it would grade around AU+ if it was real. So I saved $800 by buying it at $20 . The funny thing was his 12 year old daughter told him they were fake and then laughed at him.

 

I own two counterfeit IKE's and 4 counterfeit Morgans.

It is not illegal to own these for collectability purposes.

However, I cannot sell nor spend them as authentic as that would be a criminal offense.
However, I might be able to sell them as counterfeits to someone who wishes to own a counterfeit for their collection.

 

Acceptance can sometimes be incredibly confusing with eBay.

Several times I've attempted to sell a contemporary copy of a 1964-D Peace Dollar, complete with the word COPY, only to have eBay cancel the listing.

Yet, 1964-D Carr pieces freely sell along with these Henning coins.

 

EBay must have a hidden asterisk somewhere in their counterfeit policy, lol.

 

In the U.S., you can't really own counterfeit coins, because no title can be created in them. The Federal government reserves the right to seize them without paying compensation except possibly for any bullion value.

As a result, "buying" or "selling" counterfeits is a bit confusing as well. I'm using scare quotes because the any contract would fail for lack of title as well. In theory 18 USC §489 could be interpreted to cover such transactions, but the DOJ is currently not interpreting that section in that manner:
http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm01460.htm

This is not legal advice; contact a lawyer to ask about any specific real world situations.

 

I don't have a "title" for my genuine coins either...do I own them? However, I do "possess" both genuine and counterfeit coins, which is apparently OK. As you state, the buying & selling part is somewhat confusing, especially to the "powers that be" over at eBay.

 

I received my 1st bogus Trade $ in '65 from a grab bag. Since then, I've accumulated neary 2 dozen. They have prevented grief for many.
I know a person on coin boards w/90+ Hennings, both bogus & bogus-bogus. He knows far more than you'd find in any. book.

 

"Title" only means a legal right to own something. The idea does come from ancient titles such as "Duke of York." You have a paper title to your home or car, for instance. But if you go to the store and buy a pen, you have title to it, assuming that they had title, i.e., it was not stolen. You have title to your coins on the same basis. No one can own a counterfeit coin because no title to them is allowed under law: they are contraband and can be seized without a warrant.

 

But you can "possess" them, correct? Is my Henning nickel and '64'D Carr Peace dollar considered "contraband"?
Read my post #5 above... is this info true or false?

 

A 1963 Daniel Carr Kennedy Half Dollar started
out as a genuine 1964 US Kennedy Half Dollar.
Is it genuine or counterfeit?

 

Uh, you may wish to click to the link you provided and see who Mr. Goldsborough was quoting.

Your Henning nickel would be subject to seizure. I have no comment on the legality or status of the Carr overstrikes.

 

Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion... as I stated previously, there are CT members who will always disagree, and I disagree with your opinion. I guess being "subject to" and actual seizure are two different animals.

 

Defacing money = free speech?