Our beloved coin collecting hobby is becoming discouraging

It used to be that way years ago, but not now. I've discussed this issue with two accounts and gotten the same answer. You have got to have X number of transactions to qualify as an "investor," and then you can offset the gains and losses. I have never had "X" defined for me.

Years ago, if you showed that a certain area had generated income for you, you were in the clear. Now the answer is "NO!"

It really ticks me off. My father would buy a stock and almost never sell anything, even if it was going bad. He was definitely not a "dealer" in stock. Yet stacks get capital gains treatment, which is better than coins, and the write-offs for losses.

 

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What percentage of counterfeit...or "fake" pieces do you consider may be in TPG Holders? 1%, 3%, 12% or ... ?

Truth in editing: changed "i" to " 1".

 

My latest master list of documented (by me) counterfeit coins certified genuine by TPGs fyi:

 

With the coin in the OP we know what column ANACS is.

 

group #1 thru #5???

 

The counterfeit TPG percentage overall vs. total TPG pieces graded (not reflected in chart) appears is less than .000001%, unless I am misunderstanding.

 

Hey everyone who responded to this thread, thank you. Please don't read into my silence. I've been laid up with this nasty stomach virus that's going around. I know no details are necessary

I will respond to all the wonderful posts as soon as I'm feeling more energized.

 

Although I know how to swim, a fake life jacket can still ruin your whole day. But a fake parachute, that's another matter entirely.

 

...

Every now and then you just have to chuckle...

 

$5.65 for shipping? What a rip off........

 

They always say life is all a matter of perspective. I am going to guess that my perspective is going to go over like a lead balloon. I say screw the 60's, 70's & first half of the 80's. Thank god for the grading services. I can say without doubt that every miss-represented, harshly cleaned, altered
or fraudulent coin I ever purchased happened during that time period.
I can remember seeing a dealer with a case full of 1909 Indian cents that had an S soldered on. He claimed they came from a rare roll of coins with a marred mintmark and was charging a 50% premium. People were BUYING them.
We also use to have a dealer who came to our mall twice a year. Every single coin in his cases (Hundreds if not thousands), were whizzed. He even had a motorized wire wheel set up in his stand. I watched him buy coins for pennies on the dollar. Whiz them and then put them in is case with huge mark-ups. when I approached him about it he laughed and said, "People like shiny coins. Give the people what they want." Then he flashed me a huge roll of cash.
These kind of crooks cannot exist today. Why? your on it. This is the information age.
Speaking of information, never before has their been such detailed information on coins as their is now. I collect Seated coins and some Bust halves. This would be impossible if not for the age we live in. I can get detailed descriptions of every known variety and die marriage with a few clicks of my keyboard. What does this wealth of information cost me? NOTHING. Just for example there is a web site that has a detailed description and picture of every known Bust Half.
I also no longer have to put blind faith in a description of a coin in Coin World when I go coin shopping. Instead I have over 2 dozen legit dealers on my favorites list and follow several auctions a week. Debase coin pictures all you want. Seeing is infinitely better than not.
This RIGHT NOW, this is the true Golden Age of Numismatics. End of rant. James

 

Tell me you've never looked on eBay without telling me you've never looked on eBay.

Joking aside, I mostly agree with you about the power of information. It sometimes seems like we're in the disinformation age, but there really is a HUGE pool of non-deceptive information out there about coins (and many other things).

For people who want to use it, there's a wealth of information out there. For people who don't, or who aren't aware that they need to, there are still a lot of dishonest sellers, and their reach has increased. People don't seem to change.

 

What about car salesman? Not the person but the overall business. So many of the folks that sell used cars are dishonest. Go we stop buying cars? No we are hopefully careful and if we feel treated poorly we not only never go there again, we tell other people. Same with buying coins.

 

And some of us will only buy used cars from family or friends we know and trust -- except sometimes they don't know there's a problem with a car.

Or we only buy new, but new-car offerings are overpriced and sometimes have their own problems.

Or we just stick with the cars we already own until they won't go any more, contributing to hard times in the car-dealing business.

 

I'm confused as to why you object to this, however, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say I should have clarified my intent with this advice:

You should be buying cheap (<$100) raw coins that force you to figure out what you're looking at by immersion. You should at this period be looking at slabbed coins and otherwise studying coins primarily. My advice for a prohibition on buying slabbed coins is not that you shouldn't buy a slabbed coin if you think it's a good deal, but that you shouldn't be buying the coin because of the grade on the label if you don't know how to grade it yourself.

As the last line in my advice states, the time to buy slabbed coins is the time when you don't need to rely on the grade on the slab. You should feel just as comfortable evaluating and buying the coin whether it is raw or slabbed.

 

Couple of reports and the 1879 Trade guy is toast...

 

That's a sign of a fake, right ? We're not talking about tool marks on legit coins.

Tool marks are a "tell" on Saints.

This is scary, though still very rare and greatly diminished by checking serial numbers and CAC (if stickered).

I've been worried about this for YEARS, because I believe that even experts....who spend only 15-20 seconds per coin....and looking at hundreds of coins each day....can suffer mental or physical overload and/or just miss something.

WHOA....I missed that ...when did THIS happen ? This is fraud and theft not sloppiness like missing a countefreit because you have to meet a coin quota.

No, you are NOT alone MS !!

It's something I've thought myself as I mostly deal in moderate-to-higher priced coins (i.e., Saints and Morgans). The sickening feeling of being taken is more upsetting to me than the actual financial loss. Fortunately, I've been lucky/fortunate so far.

I only buy TPG-certified coins and I do my checking before any 4-figure purchase. Down the line, I'm looking to get an MCMVII High Relief Saint so you are talking a 5-figure coin (my budget for a few years, quite frankly) so you can BET I'll be cautious.

Buying certified...checking registration numbers...considering paying up for CAC...buying from a reputable dealer.....I think that's all we can do, right ?

I guess the ONLY way to be 100% sure we never get taken is to not play and not collect....and I for one REFUSE to let these thieves and frauds dissuade me from enjoying my hobby and love.

 

Maybe these threads should be sticky's at the top of the Forum and pinned ?

They're REALLY useful for showing us what we DON'T know.

 

Much Better. However, inexpensive coins are also slabbed. I cringe when beginners jump into this hobby without any clue, mentor, or research. Additionally, I think it is a rare bird that can resist buying coins right away. That's why most collectors have some bad experiences at first. That's also why if you must, go with the slabs from the start. Then when you learn the ropes, you don't even need to look at a slab or send a coin to be graded. I've never needed the services of a TPGS and I'll bet I'm in the majority of collectors.

 

Mistakes early on aren't to be avoided. That's how you learn best.