Orders and Decorations: Military Medals

We do not do much with these here. Over the years, we have had few discussions, and most of them were thin.

2011 did not go anywhere
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/militaria-collectors.192459/#post-1271004

2010 Deep discussion on an interesting medal(lion)
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/mystery-coin-please-help.105632/#post-877251

Another short talk from 2010
(Aviator medal World War I)
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/world-war-medals.148080/#post-1067000

A Clinker thread from 2011 about medals, etc., from Darmstadt.
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/trivia-medals-of-german-state-darmstadt.184772/#post-1218724

2009 thread from someone looking to price a World War I medal
(CWTokenMan offered a citation:
Military Medals and Decorations, A Price Guide for Collectors by Yves Arden, 1976.)
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/371st-infantry-medallion.61163/#post-638826

This weekend I went to a couple of coin stores looking for orders and decorations. I had in mind the usual civilian types that we find in with other medals and tokens: the high school band, the Latin club, that sort of thing... My intention was to build a different medal entirely from a ribbon and a numismatic medal(lion) for a personal award ceremony. What I found at the bottom of a dealer's junk box where these:


At left a National Defense medal give for service specifically in World War II, Korea, Vietnam, and the current GWOT. At right a Good Conduct medal for (a) three years of exemplary conduct or (b) one year in World War II without a discipline problem.

Because of their condition and lack of attention and care given to them, I thought that they were common civiiian medals from World War II. Researching them was ridiculously easy. I took them apart, washed the silks out by hand, and put them back together. Now, I am pretty much stuck with them. I only display the awards I earned. Right now they are in with my other tokens and medals. I cannot even put them in with my dad's DD-214 and 201 records because he did not earn these.

Like others here, I am internally conflicted on these. On the one hand, we preserve and study history. Orders and decorations are a subset of numismatics. On the other hand, we have "stolen valor" in the news all the time. Having these floating around in the after-markets just enables that. So, I dunno...

But I do know that I am disappointed to have found these at the bottom of a dealer's junk box. I understand and appreciate the distinction between the Commerical Ethic and the Guardian Ethic. (See Jane Jacobs, Systems of Survival: A Dialogue on the Moral Foundations of Commerce and Politics, 1992.) And this dealer was not a veteran. So, for him, he probably paid nothing for them and had no customer wanting one; thus they were junk to him.

In a new topic thread, (https://www.cointalk.com/threads/nu...stics-channel-on-youtube.348494/#post-3771796) @zviscevic offered the label "phaleristics" for the study of orders and medals. Apparently, the word is known in Europe. I have never heard it here. We just say "Orders and Decorations."

 

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Could you clarify this please.

 

I was awarded the two you showed (US Army) plus one more.
It is a military/civilian medal -- Antarctic Service (I got mine as a civilian).

I also have my father's medals (US Army, 1933-1956).
He served during WWII and Korea but not in the Theaters of Operation during combat.

Heck, I was born in khaki diapers

 

The DD-214 is the general discharge papers and the 201 is the cumulative personnel record. There are others such as DD-4 and DD4/1 Enlistment / Reenlistment and no doubt many others. You can get the records for just about anyone from the US DoD. The huge national archive in St. Louis suffered a fire and million of records 1912-1960 were damaged and many lost forever.
(Read about it here:
https://www.archives.gov/personnel-records-center/fire-1973
and here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Personnel_Records_Center_fire)

My father served in Korea. I requested his records. It took a couple of queries. I also wrote to his state national guard. It was pretty interesting. I was working in a national guard office at the time and my colleagues explained the jargon and how to interpret it.

In order to answer your question I went back into the box and read through some of the papers and found that Dad did get the Good Conduct medal (twice). So, thanks for asking.

 

I have the one on the left that was awarded to my Dad. Still in it's blue box and still sealed in plastic. Mine to keep until I pass on but my two boys would not have a clue about it. I need to tell them to hold onto it otherwise it will end up in the same place as those you found.

 

I earned both of those, plus a few ribbons while serving in the Air Force 1963 - 1967. I have the small arms expert and Vietnam service medal. My mother passed down her father's medals as he service in WW II, European front. Other than for display in a shadow box, they are just reminders of what I went through in my youth.

 

Did you Winter over?

 

Some will have the recipients name engraved on the reverse

 

Okay, I guess I misunderstood. "You said, he did not earn these." If he served in the military (which he did) and was given an Honorable Discharge, he would have earn those two medals. They would be documented in his DD214.

 

Nope. Summer only so no Winter Over bar.
I was at Pole Station from 1 November 1968 until about 15 February 1969.
Obviously I never saw the sun set.

When I was in the Army my last PCS (Feb 1963-Mar 1964) was at Ft. Wainwright, Alaska.
That was about 100 miles south of the Arctic Circle so the sun did set daily (sort of).
It went below the horizon for 2-3 hours.
Still plenty twilight to drive without headlights.

But on the other hand I was also at a place that was at the other end of the thermometer -- Yuma Test Station, Arizona.
That was about Aug 61 to Feb 63.

 

As I said above in #4, he did get the Good Conduct (twice). That was for his ten years in the National Guard. However... I thought that he did not qualify because while in the Big Green, he had a non-judicial punishment, which negated the Good Conduct. The National Defense medal was for those who served in theater. He was in Korea. In fact, he was wounded there. However... the armistace had been signed. So, the trip to the hospital courtesy of a North Korean sniper did not count...

But, I will read the documents again if only because it would nice to have a box to put the medals in.

Cadet James Moschgat "was reading a book about World War II and the tough Allied ground campaign in Italy," when he read an incredible story of a private William Crawford who was presumed killed in action and whose father received the Medal of Honor for his son. Unknown to the Army and his family, Crawford had been captured by German soldiers and held as a prisoner of war for nineteen months until the war ended. In that book was a picture of a man who resembled his squadron janitor. Moschgat shared this with the other cadets and confirmed the story with Crawford who replied similar to "Yep, that's me." When asked why he did not talk about it, Crawford said, "That was one day in my life and it happened a long time ago."---
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Crawford

 

Antarctic service? Please, do show.

That's the one medal I want. I'd rather get that (or the Arctic service) than pretty much anything else.

 

I was drafted in 1968 and went to Basic at Fort Bragg, NC. (Basic is not there anymore.) I went to Fort Dix, NJ for AIT, then to Fort Benning, GA for jump school. I was transferred to Fort Bragg. I was in the 4th Brigade HQ when they learned that I could type. I became a law clerk and recorder of Special Courts-Martials. I was a recorder of over 300 courts-martials and typed everyone of them. I also typed up Non-Judicial Punishment records as well, or as they called them Article 15's. Now, I want to tell what interested me about a father that received Non-Judicial Punishment and his "Good Conduct" medal was taken away. During my 2 years working with JAG, I never heard of a soldier losing his "Good Conduct" medal. Sounds fishy to me.

 

I thought all service members received the National Defense Medal whether they served in theater or not. Plus he should have a Purple Heart.

 

You are correct. All servicemembers get the National Defense medal no matter when or where they served.

In fact, the National Defense is often the first medal that new members receive. The ROTC graduates had at least the National Defense and Air Force Training ribbons. A few had the Expert Marksmanship, but at the bare minimum you get National Defense and Training.

Should be similar or the same for the other branches.

Source: I attended a commissioning ceremony for Air Force ROTC commissioned 2nd Lts in 2018 and every single one of them had the National Defense ribbon even before serving a single day in actual active duty.

 

All wounds received during a conflict will get a Purple Heart. Unless the injury was obtained not in the line of duty, or if it wasn't in the middle of a conflict.

Breaking your leg in a car accident on case won't get you a Purple Heart. Getting shrapnel in your leg from an IED in Kuwait will.

 

I know. You're entitled to the National Defense Medal as soon as you're sworn in. I'm a Marine.

 

First, I think it's important to discuss stolen valor. I don't think anyone could possibly claim stolen valor because someone possesses a military medal or decoration that they did not earn. Is someone a counterfeiter because they have fake coins or notes in their collection or is that person a counterfeiter when they commit some act of fraud like selling fake coins as real or trying to pass fake notes at a store? Same with stolen valor. Without someone to preserve military uniforms, documents, medals, etc. that history will be lost. Unless you're pinning the medals on your chest and going around trying to get discounts or reap some other benefit, no valor has been stolen. In my mind, if an individual can preserve a medal and it's accompanying order then they have preserved that valor, not exploited it.

So for the National Defense medal, it's awarded to people who served during a conflict. So yes, because we're in a conflict, anyone currently serving gets it. I don't know the history of the medal or if has a more noble past, but today it's a participation award and doesn't really count for anything.

Good conduct can be trickier. Each branch has it's own rules about good conduct medals, and it will be important to know what rules were in effect when it was issued. For example, about 12 years ago the Air Force got rid of it, only to bring it back a couple years later. I believe as long as a member doesn't commit a bad conduct offense (break the law) they are eligible to wear it. So NJP (non-judicial punishment) is not necessarily a bad conduct offense.

I can't speak of these medals historic importance, but today in the Air Force, each is a participation trophy and neither imparts any great impact to an Airman's career, you get them for showing up.

 

Army Good Conduct requires three (3) years service to be eligible however in time of war only y one (1) year is required to be eligible. The GC medal is for enlisted personnel and not officers. Here are pic's of the Antarctic Service Medals

 

Interesting.
I didn't know there was an Arctic Service medal.
I'll have to look that up and see what was required to earn it.
In my Ft. Wainwright PCS I was Army R&D meteorology (an MOS that no longer exists).
But the Post was mostly for Yukon Command.
I wonder if the grunts got the award?

>> Researching <<

"The Navy Arctic Service Ribbon is a decoration of the United States Navy which was established in May 1986.
The ribbon is authorized to any member of the U.S. Navy or United States Marine Corps for service above the Arctic Circle.
Like the Antarctica Service Medal, it may also be awarded to civilians and members of other U.S. services."


I guess the answer is "no" since we weren't above the Arctic Circle.
Although I almost was.
They were going to assign me to some sort of Gov't test support up at Point Barrow but canceled it for some reason.
That was good.
I'm allergic to polar bears