Opinions wanted...PCGS Altered Surfaces Morgan

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Arnold Coindexter, Apr 19, 2019.

  1. Arnold Coindexter

    Arnold Coindexter New Member

    Hi guys/gals.

    One of my recent PCGS submissions returned this Morgan Dollar with Altered Surfaces designation. I’m hoping that someone in here can perhaps help identify why this coin got this no grade designation. PCGS only gives a generic scripted explanation. I’m not an expert, but I generally know my way around a coin. I cannot see the alteration to the coin. I’m hopeful that restoration may remove product added to the surface, but I need to understand what the problem is first. Possibly something on Liberty’s cheek? A reasonably valuable coin reduced to only a few hundred dollars by something I cannot detect. Your opinion is much appreciated!
    31C6E762-5B85-4162-8047-63AF77B4719D.jpeg
    756C5727-BC5B-4FA1-9FAA-5CA85F572480.jpeg
     
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  3. C-B-D

    C-B-D U.S. Type Coins or death!

    I get this designation sometimes, and I always study them when I do in hopes of learning something. The one thing I've noticed about all my "altered surfaces" coins is that there is no frost or "skin" to the luster, almost like the surface was stripped of originality by some means (chemical or wiping).
     
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  4. desertgem

    desertgem MODERATOR Senior Errer Collecktor Moderator

    Possibly, they suspected tooling ( smoothing the surface) in front of the face, reed mark hits on both sides. Hard to tell from a photo but on't have the edge mark where another coin hits it with an edge. Jim
     
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  5. C-B-D

    C-B-D U.S. Type Coins or death!

    Yeah the PCGS Trueview images show how flat this coin looks. The luster is not dynamic at all. That's what I mean by "the surfaces look stripped."
     
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  6. kanga

    kanga 60 Year Collector

    I'm with the "dipped" opinion.
     
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  7. rmpsrpms

    rmpsrpms Lincoln Maniac

    Is it true that an over-dipped coin will come back Altered Surfaces? I did not realize that the TPGs had any limits to the practice of dipping.
     
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  8. Mainebill

    Mainebill Wild Bill

    I think it’s over dipped or otherwise chemically ttreated
     
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  9. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    Looks over dipped but her cheek, eyebrow and the field in front of her nose raise questions.
     
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  10. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    Anyone notice the areas around the letters, especially the "P" in Pluribus. The color around those letters is different (so like others said, the fields were treated, but the areas directly around the letters remained "protected").
     
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  11. Arnold Coindexter

    Arnold Coindexter New Member

    Thanks for all the opinions! Just for fun, here’s a coin with similarly low luster; except this one is graded MS62 from PCGS website. Thought it was interesting and wanted to share.
    BE70A00C-4B3F-4E62-81C1-32DDFEC0C001.jpeg
    4B478F76-0647-46E6-90A7-157A692796D3.jpeg
     
  12. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random nobody...

    The luster looks dulled, which implies that is has been overdipped. I agree with the designation
     
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  13. Arnold Coindexter

    Arnold Coindexter New Member

     
  14. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random nobody...

    Yes, and there are probably some hairlines not visible in the picture
     
  15. C-B-D

    C-B-D U.S. Type Coins or death!

    Can you not see the difference between the two? Honest question. Maybe put them both side-by-side and give it another look.
     
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  16. Arnold Coindexter

    Arnold Coindexter New Member

    I do see a difference. I also struggle to see one as MS62 and the other UNC-DETAILS. Not because I’m discontent with the grade but because I haven’t seen enough coins in this condition to know the difference, which is why I posted. It’s good to learn. Thanks for your input!
     
  17. C-B-D

    C-B-D U.S. Type Coins or death!

    To my eye, the MS62 you posted has very low luster. But your coin has no luster. An unc coin with no original luster means it's been altered or messed with in some way.
     
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  18. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random nobody...

    His coin still has luster, but it has been damaged and looks wrong. The only way to get a feel for what looks right is to look at hundreds of BU Morgans
     
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  19. C-B-D

    C-B-D U.S. Type Coins or death!

    I see a shiny coin, but I don't see mint luster.
     
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  20. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random nobody...

    It’s very impaired on the devices, but there are still remnants in the fields. It would barely cartwheel in hand
     
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  21. C-B-D

    C-B-D U.S. Type Coins or death!

    All I see is light reflection, and not mint luster at all. But pics are limiting.
     
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