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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;TIF, post: 2357857, member: 56859&quot;]Many good points are raised here.</p><p><br /></p><p>Depending on the circumstance and coin, I can tolerate some smoothing.&nbsp; I&#039;ve even bought a tooled coin or two even though I shouldn&#039;t have (one I didn&#039;t realize, one I did).&nbsp; I&#039;d prefer that no one tooled their coins.</p><p><br /></p><p>As for patinas, I strongly suspect that some of our bronze coins, praised for their fine patinas (especially certain shades of thick green patinas), have in fact had those patinas created by a person in modern times.&nbsp;&nbsp; Bronze and copper patination techniques have been around for a <i>very</i> long time.&nbsp;&nbsp; I don&#039;t put as much importance on patina, other than if it is intact or not, whether relatively fresh patina &quot;chips&quot; could invite bronze disease, and whether the overall look is appealing.</p><p><br /></p><p>What color would you like your bronze coin to be?&nbsp; Here&#039;s a sampling of colors created by various patina recipes (copied from <a href="http://www.sciencecompany.com/Patina-Formulas-for-Brass-Bronze-and-Copper.aspx" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.sciencecompany.com/Patina-Formulas-for-Brass-Bronze-and-Copper.aspx" rel="nofollow">sciencecompany.com</a>):</p><p><br /></p><p>1. Light to Dark Brown</p><p>2. Brown to Black</p><p>3. Blackish Brown</p><p>4. Florentine Brown</p><p>5. Antique Green</p><p>6. Basic Green</p><p>7. Blue Green</p><p>8. Cold Process Green</p><p>9. Light Green</p><p>10. Green</p><p>11. Green-Blue (Flemish)</p><p>12. Purple to Light Green</p><p>13. Transparent Blue</p><p>14. Blue</p><p>15. Straw Yellow</p><p>16. Golden Yellow</p><p>17. Deep Rust Red</p><p>18. Purple</p><p>19. Antique White</p><p>20. Red - semi-matt (For Copper &amp; Copper Plate)</p><p>21. Dull Pink (For Copper &amp; Copper Plate)</p><p>22. Red - Purple Satin (For Cast Bronze and Brass)</p><p>23. Orange Brown (For Cast Bronze and Brass)</p><p>24. Black - semi-gloss (For Cast Bronze and Brass)</p><p>25. Blue Green (For Cast Bronze and Brass)</p><p>26. Golden Yellow (For Cast Bronze and Brass)</p><p>27. Blue Green - semi-matt (For Cast Bronze and Brass)</p><p>28. Brown - Greenish Yellow (For Cast Bronze and Brass)</p><p>29. Reddish Brown (For Cast Bronze and Brass)</p><p>30. Black (For Cast Bronze and Brass)</p><p>31. Variegated Gold-Brown (For Cast Bronze and Brass)</p><p>32. Red (For Cast Bronze and Brass)</p><p><br /></p><p>A similar list of recipes is published by the US Government, &quot;<a href="http://www.gsa.gov/portal/content/113790" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.gsa.gov/portal/content/113790" rel="nofollow">Historic Preservation - Technical Procedures</a>&quot;.</p><p><br /></p><p>If a coin isn&#039;t tooled and if the new patina is done well, I don&#039;t really care if the patina formed two years ago or two millennia ago, as long as the patination recipe does not induce accelerated deterioration of the fabric.&nbsp; Fake desert patinas are a different story.&nbsp; The common practice of applying colored wax, makeup, or a slurry of yellow/orange clay to bronze to fill pits and provide contrast for the devices is <b>not</b> okay.&nbsp; There are a couple of dealers on a popular ancient coin sales site who appear to routinely apply such stuff to their bronze coins.&nbsp; Beware these orange-yellow &quot;desert patinas&quot;.</p><p><br /></p><p>As for the OP&#039;s questions about manipulation, I think dealers should disclose tooling and filling.&nbsp; &quot;Smoothing&quot; may be a bit difficult because it may be hard to distinguish the line between &quot;artifact of cleaning&quot; and &quot;smoothing&quot;.&nbsp; Re-patination:&nbsp; well... that is probably considered a routine part of conservation of bronze coins.&nbsp; I don&#039;t feel as strongly about disclosure of that, except that gunk applied to mimic desert patination should be disclosed.&nbsp; Better yet, it should be removed.&nbsp; True patinas-- changes to the color and composition of the coin&#039;s surface-- cannot be removed with a simple soak in water, alcohol, or acetone.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Of course it is possible that a given bronze coin may not have circulated.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>A coin not cleaned or molested <i>in any way</i>, which is probably almost impossible to determine so I don&#039;t think noting that as a selling point has much meaning other than for marketing purposes.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>No, and who cares?&nbsp; &quot;Grade&quot; the coin yourself.&nbsp; If you like it, are happy with the price, and can afford it-- buy it.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Yes, many bronze coins can and should be and are &quot;conserved&quot; (cleaned and/or treated for bronze disease).</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>See above discussion.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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