Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
One of the scarcer Trebonianus Gallus antoniniani
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="Terence Cheesman, post: 3756279, member: 86498"]I read with great interest Roman Collector's response to my comments and I will agree that in the end we really do not know. However some comments do require a response. The first issue is the increase is the increase in silver content of the antoninianii of the Branch mint. I do not know the source of this information but I assume it comes from "The Metrology of the Roman Silver Coinage Part III by D.R. Walker.BAR Supplementary Series 40 1978. This study was based on analysis using XRF analysis. I will not comment on the accuracy of this system except to point out that it has received criticism in the past.</p><p> Using the data from pages 45, 46 and 47 one does note an impressive spike in weight of a theoretical denarius from .63, .64 and .61 minted at Rome to that of .74 from the Branch mint. This is impressive and is used by Roman Collector as a proof of another mint. However looking at the data on pages 39 to 42 which cover the coinage of Philip I one notes that the four issues cited , the weight of the theoretical denarius starts at .91 goes to .87 then to .89 then in the issue of 248-249 A.D to .97. While not as dramatic as the difference between the Rome and Branch mint under Gallus it does hint that the mint of Rome was trying to improve the quality of its coinage.</p><p> Another point that needs to be made is that while you may have a difference in the style of the engraving you may not have an example of another mint. These two coins were once in my collection. They are denarii of Vespasian with the reverse IOVIS CVSTOS They appear to be RIC 849 and 850 respectability [ATTACH=full]1006847[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]1006848[/ATTACH] As one can see the two engravers had a completely different style.</p><p> In response to Mairat's observation about the Branch mint coins being found in larger numbers in the Balkans, I cannot comment. I could not find the source. However many years ago I read a book about the distribution of Roman aes. What the authors of that book surmised is that issues of Roman aes were not uniformly distributed throughout the western provinces of the empire. Some issues were all but confined to a few provinces and in others all but unknown. Unlike denarii, most aes coins would not move far from where they were initially issued.</p><p> In one of my on going studies, that of the silver drachms of the Severan dynasty minted at Petra Jordan I have noticed that up to the present time not a single drachm has ever been found at Petra. in fact the majority of the coins that have entered the market over the last twenty years appear to have been found in the Balkans. Many aureii of the Gallic Empire are actually found in what would have been eastern part of Germany and western Poland."The Gallic Empire" J.F. Drinkwater page 216. Thus one cannot assume especially with gold or silver coins that a number of finds in a certain area would denote the presence of a mint.</p><p> Now I come to my last point a discussion of mint activity during the reign of Gallus. On page 20-21 of "The Cunetio Treasure" by Besly and Brand a summery of the results of analysis of some 19 hoards is noted. Now my math skills leave a lot to be desired so some of these numbers may be a bit off (Sorry) I forgot to buy a calculator.</p><p> Issue......ROME .................. Branch</p><p> 1...........About 125.................1</p><p> 2a..........About 1300...............6</p><p> 2b...........About 620................0 (Types are known)</p><p> 3............About 950.................2</p><p> 4.............About 750............... 0 (Types are known)</p><p> 5.............58...........................About 2200</p><p> It is interesting that the Branch mint emission is actually quite large in comparison to those of the Rome mint. This is reflected in another hoard study "Le Tresor D'Eauze " which on page 124 gives out the following numbers (Gallus only)</p><p>Issue 1, ..........29</p><p>Issue 2a,.........167</p><p>Issue 2b,..........87</p><p>Issue 3,...........191</p><p>Issue 4,............155</p><p>Issue 5 (Rome),..6.........Branch mint, 248.</p><p> I do not know is this hoard was included in the Besly & Brand study and though the Branch mint issue is somewhat smaller in proportion to the Rome issues as recorded in Besly & Brand it is still quite large.</p><p>What is puzzling is why are the two mints virtual mirrors of each other? When Rome is active virtually nothing from the Branch mint yet suddenly the Branch mint starts striking coins in vast numbers and Rome is virtually silent.</p><p> What is interesting is that the "Tresor" does give out the number of Gallus/ Volusian hybrids. 11 in total.</p><p> Okay as noted before, we do not know. However I do think that trying to establish a separate mint for the Branch issue is at best problematic.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Terence Cheesman, post: 3756279, member: 86498"]I read with great interest Roman Collector's response to my comments and I will agree that in the end we really do not know. However some comments do require a response. The first issue is the increase is the increase in silver content of the antoninianii of the Branch mint. I do not know the source of this information but I assume it comes from "The Metrology of the Roman Silver Coinage Part III by D.R. Walker.BAR Supplementary Series 40 1978. This study was based on analysis using XRF analysis. I will not comment on the accuracy of this system except to point out that it has received criticism in the past. Using the data from pages 45, 46 and 47 one does note an impressive spike in weight of a theoretical denarius from .63, .64 and .61 minted at Rome to that of .74 from the Branch mint. This is impressive and is used by Roman Collector as a proof of another mint. However looking at the data on pages 39 to 42 which cover the coinage of Philip I one notes that the four issues cited , the weight of the theoretical denarius starts at .91 goes to .87 then to .89 then in the issue of 248-249 A.D to .97. While not as dramatic as the difference between the Rome and Branch mint under Gallus it does hint that the mint of Rome was trying to improve the quality of its coinage. Another point that needs to be made is that while you may have a difference in the style of the engraving you may not have an example of another mint. These two coins were once in my collection. They are denarii of Vespasian with the reverse IOVIS CVSTOS They appear to be RIC 849 and 850 respectability [ATTACH=full]1006847[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]1006848[/ATTACH] As one can see the two engravers had a completely different style. In response to Mairat's observation about the Branch mint coins being found in larger numbers in the Balkans, I cannot comment. I could not find the source. However many years ago I read a book about the distribution of Roman aes. What the authors of that book surmised is that issues of Roman aes were not uniformly distributed throughout the western provinces of the empire. Some issues were all but confined to a few provinces and in others all but unknown. Unlike denarii, most aes coins would not move far from where they were initially issued. In one of my on going studies, that of the silver drachms of the Severan dynasty minted at Petra Jordan I have noticed that up to the present time not a single drachm has ever been found at Petra. in fact the majority of the coins that have entered the market over the last twenty years appear to have been found in the Balkans. Many aureii of the Gallic Empire are actually found in what would have been eastern part of Germany and western Poland."The Gallic Empire" J.F. Drinkwater page 216. Thus one cannot assume especially with gold or silver coins that a number of finds in a certain area would denote the presence of a mint. Now I come to my last point a discussion of mint activity during the reign of Gallus. On page 20-21 of "The Cunetio Treasure" by Besly and Brand a summery of the results of analysis of some 19 hoards is noted. Now my math skills leave a lot to be desired so some of these numbers may be a bit off (Sorry) I forgot to buy a calculator. Issue......ROME .................. Branch 1...........About 125.................1 2a..........About 1300...............6 2b...........About 620................0 (Types are known) 3............About 950.................2 4.............About 750............... 0 (Types are known) 5.............58...........................About 2200 It is interesting that the Branch mint emission is actually quite large in comparison to those of the Rome mint. This is reflected in another hoard study "Le Tresor D'Eauze " which on page 124 gives out the following numbers (Gallus only) Issue 1, ..........29 Issue 2a,.........167 Issue 2b,..........87 Issue 3,...........191 Issue 4,............155 Issue 5 (Rome),..6.........Branch mint, 248. I do not know is this hoard was included in the Besly & Brand study and though the Branch mint issue is somewhat smaller in proportion to the Rome issues as recorded in Besly & Brand it is still quite large. What is puzzling is why are the two mints virtual mirrors of each other? When Rome is active virtually nothing from the Branch mint yet suddenly the Branch mint starts striking coins in vast numbers and Rome is virtually silent. What is interesting is that the "Tresor" does give out the number of Gallus/ Volusian hybrids. 11 in total. Okay as noted before, we do not know. However I do think that trying to establish a separate mint for the Branch issue is at best problematic.[/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
One of the scarcer Trebonianus Gallus antoniniani
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...