Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
One Coin Twice Hammered
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="TheRed, post: 4302251, member: 87080"]It's not too often that a coin on eBay leaves me stunned and giddy to acquire it. One night when I was up late I decided to search eBay for fountain pens. After not seeing anything that caught my eye, I decided to search for English groats. During my search I came across such a coin which I am sharing in this thread. </p><p>[ATTACH=full]1094722[/ATTACH] </p><p><font size="4">Edward III AR Groat 4th Coinage pre-Treaty Series D/E mule circa 1353 AD, London mint, mm Cross 1/2. </font></p><p><font size="4">Obv: EDWARD DG REX ANGL Z FRANC D HYB; crowned bust of king facing, annulet stops, mm cross 1.</font></p><p><font size="4">Rev: POSVI/DEVM·A/DIVTOR/EM·MEV; LON/DON/CIVI/TAS. Long cross pattee with pellets in quarters, annulet stops, mm cross 2.</font></p><p><font size="4">SCBC.1566/7 N.1152/3</font></p><p><br /></p><p>At first glance this coin may look like an ugly mess, but there are several features that caught my eye. One of them is more obvious and a couple others aren't. Maybe the least obvious is that the groat is a mule between dies of class D and class E. The obverse is from class D, as indicated by the mint mark of cross 1 and the letter R with the curled tail. The reverse is from class E, with cross 2 as a mint mark. Even more fun is that despite being from different classes, both obverse and reverse have the letter N unbarred. While a standard feature in class E, many of the class D dies had barred Ns. </p><p><br /></p><p>Those features are a bit of fly specking, as some on this forum would say. The really cool feature is that this groat was struck twice. Not double struck, as is so common on hammered coins, but flipped over and struck a second time in order to make the obverse into the reverse and the reverse into the obverse. I little amateur photo editing will help make it evident. First the untouched image then the one I edited.</p><p>[ATTACH=full]1094722[/ATTACH] </p><p>[ATTACH=full]1094750[/ATTACH] </p><p>The double striking is most evident on the obverse of the groat. Starting at 7 o'clock on the rim of the, there are four partial letters still readable from the reverse die. They are TOR/E from the reverse legend DIVTOR/EM·MEV. Moving towards the center, a complete letter I and partial V from CIVI are also visible.</p><p><br /></p><p>The bust of Edward is obscured by a good portion of the reverse long cross pattee and a number of the pellets. Seven of them are visible, though I didn't highlight them all. The small pellets that comprise the rings on the reverse are also clear on the obverse. Lastly, the letters D and O from DON are visible to the right of the bust of Edward.</p><p><br /></p><p>Much less detail from the obverse die is visible on the reverse of the coin. Part of the king's shoulder, a bit of the tressure, and a few trefoils can be seen. The smallest parts of the letters A and N, from ANGL in the obverse legend, can be seem at the edge of the reverse at 11 o'clock. This leads me to believe that the reverse absorbed much more force from the second strike as compared to the obverse. </p><p><br /></p><p>The real interesting question is why would the moneyer take a groat that had already been struck, flip it over, an restrike it? My theory is that the coin was badly off center when initially minted. That there are several letters on both the obverse and reverse that are largely off the flan would attest to that theory. In a poorly carried out attempt at quality control the moneyer flipped the coin, lined it up with the dies, and restruck the groat. Thankfully he wasnt completely successful in his effort, and instead created a very interesting coin that thankfully survived for over 600 years.</p><p><br /></p><p>Please feel free to post mint errors, brockages, double strikes, or any medieval or ancient coins that you feel are relevant. Most importantly, thanks for reading![/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="TheRed, post: 4302251, member: 87080"]It's not too often that a coin on eBay leaves me stunned and giddy to acquire it. One night when I was up late I decided to search eBay for fountain pens. After not seeing anything that caught my eye, I decided to search for English groats. During my search I came across such a coin which I am sharing in this thread. [ATTACH=full]1094722[/ATTACH] [SIZE=4]Edward III AR Groat 4th Coinage pre-Treaty Series D/E mule circa 1353 AD, London mint, mm Cross 1/2. Obv: EDWARD DG REX ANGL Z FRANC D HYB; crowned bust of king facing, annulet stops, mm cross 1. Rev: POSVI/DEVM·A/DIVTOR/EM·MEV; LON/DON/CIVI/TAS. Long cross pattee with pellets in quarters, annulet stops, mm cross 2. SCBC.1566/7 N.1152/3[/SIZE] At first glance this coin may look like an ugly mess, but there are several features that caught my eye. One of them is more obvious and a couple others aren't. Maybe the least obvious is that the groat is a mule between dies of class D and class E. The obverse is from class D, as indicated by the mint mark of cross 1 and the letter R with the curled tail. The reverse is from class E, with cross 2 as a mint mark. Even more fun is that despite being from different classes, both obverse and reverse have the letter N unbarred. While a standard feature in class E, many of the class D dies had barred Ns. Those features are a bit of fly specking, as some on this forum would say. The really cool feature is that this groat was struck twice. Not double struck, as is so common on hammered coins, but flipped over and struck a second time in order to make the obverse into the reverse and the reverse into the obverse. I little amateur photo editing will help make it evident. First the untouched image then the one I edited. [ATTACH=full]1094722[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]1094750[/ATTACH] The double striking is most evident on the obverse of the groat. Starting at 7 o'clock on the rim of the, there are four partial letters still readable from the reverse die. They are TOR/E from the reverse legend DIVTOR/EM·MEV. Moving towards the center, a complete letter I and partial V from CIVI are also visible. The bust of Edward is obscured by a good portion of the reverse long cross pattee and a number of the pellets. Seven of them are visible, though I didn't highlight them all. The small pellets that comprise the rings on the reverse are also clear on the obverse. Lastly, the letters D and O from DON are visible to the right of the bust of Edward. Much less detail from the obverse die is visible on the reverse of the coin. Part of the king's shoulder, a bit of the tressure, and a few trefoils can be seen. The smallest parts of the letters A and N, from ANGL in the obverse legend, can be seem at the edge of the reverse at 11 o'clock. This leads me to believe that the reverse absorbed much more force from the second strike as compared to the obverse. The real interesting question is why would the moneyer take a groat that had already been struck, flip it over, an restrike it? My theory is that the coin was badly off center when initially minted. That there are several letters on both the obverse and reverse that are largely off the flan would attest to that theory. In a poorly carried out attempt at quality control the moneyer flipped the coin, lined it up with the dies, and restruck the groat. Thankfully he wasnt completely successful in his effort, and instead created a very interesting coin that thankfully survived for over 600 years. Please feel free to post mint errors, brockages, double strikes, or any medieval or ancient coins that you feel are relevant. Most importantly, thanks for reading![/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
One Coin Twice Hammered
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...