Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by benveniste, Jan 29, 2023.
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@Insider thinks of this one?
They won't let you download a picture for my "virtual black cabinet" of counterfeits.
Here are the photos I have of an Omega counterfeit.
1. Gold label PCI coins are usually crap. The coins were graded by new owners who were not the best numismatists. This may be an example of a fake they missed.
2. Now, for the folks who wish to control what others collect, page #97 of my Redbook values a counterfeit 1804 cent at $1000 in EF. I owned one of these decades ago and wish I had never sold it. Does anyone here think all these fakes should be melted too?
Yes, I do!
Who's "they" ???
I think the "classic" counterfeits have the value....nobody I know wants a modern day Chinese or Joe Schmo Saint copy or 1804 fake.
It's the ones from decades ago that have some nostalgic sentimental and numismatic (in a perverse sense) value.
Some contemporary counterfeits have value as a piece of history from centuries ago. The Omaga counterfeits were made to rip off collectors off maybe 50 years ago, but they are certainly nothing to celebrate and have dealers make profits from selling them.
Please don't feed the beast. It will only get bigger. Using this logic, the Chinese counterfeits will be of value to the next generation of collectors.
Remember this when you post. "Contemporary" is a moving period of time. Our involvement with Numismatics lasts less than a Century. That's a drop in the big bucket of opinions, standards, and popular collectables. Think about this: 1964 was 58 YEARS AGO! No one alive can predict everything that collectors of the future will desire. Think about that too.
Another example: Circulated "micro "O" dollars are worth many times the value of their genuine counterparts. They were considered contemporary counterfeits at the turn of the Century when they were reported in newspapers of the day!
contemporary counterfeits have value as a piece of history from centuries ago. The Omaga counterfeits were made to rip off collectors off maybe 50 years ago, but they are certainly nothing to celebrate and have dealers make profits from selling them.
Please don't feed the beast. It will only get bigger. Using this logic, the Chinese counterfeits will be of value to the next generation of collectors."
It appears that we have reached agreement. As a matter of fact, according to actual sales, it must be concluded that CHINESE COUNTERFEITS are already valuable to collectors of this generation; and I expect it will continue into the next generation also. ￼ Fortunately, you are not in control of what others collect.
PS It is already bigger than you know; and you have not seen anything coming next!
So far what you choosing to decide what to collect, you are cutting your own collector throat if you make the Chinese garbage collectable items. If you want to market that crap, I would not be against the Secret Service coming and shutting your business down. I am usually a free market advocate, but if we make no effort to make the Chinese and other counterfeits unacceptable, we are looking at a bleak future for this hobby.
Yes, I draw the line between "meant to pass as money" and "meant to fool collectors." The latter - throw in the garbage or melt them.
You are trying a very sly trick by bringing the "Straw Man" into this thread. I understand English pretty well and I failed to read anywhere in this thread about folks that collect counterfeits suggesting that they be sold to unsuspecting collectors.
Unfortunately, counterfeit coins have been around long before you, I, or our Great, Great, Great, Great Grandparents were born. Today, the Chinese counterfeit coin problem is on the Treasury Depts back burner. They EXIST. Some of the Chinese garbage are already collectable items. People buy them for whatever the reason and people collect them for whatever the reason.
I suggest you don't lose any sleep over it. Nothing reasonable that has been done to protect greedy or ignorant collectors has worked.
PS I'll bet that for every counterfeit you melt that 200 are being struck to eventually replace it.
I have purchased recent Chinese fakes in order to document them and warn collectors about them- my 47 current Coin Week articles may attest to that. I have also documented the sellers and notified several government agencies about them both directly and through Doug Davis and the Anti-Counterfeiting Educational Foundation.
I also display items for educational purposes at major coin shows as I can, especially EAC Conventions; trying to poke the beast, not feed it...
Hey, I wouldn't want one. I'd rather spend the $$$ on an actual MCMVII HR or another mid-priced double eagle.
Good Lord. Beautiful! I'd be very happy to own that coin. At least until l looked up the cert.
There was another very dangerous counterfeit of the 1796 half dollar that Stacks sold many years ago. PCGS caught it. I’ll post pictures later.
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