# of Counterfeits at PCGS in last 30 days

No offense, but I think you missed the point! Would be primarily looking at the types of counterfeits submitted and repeat offenders. I found a large number of counterfeits by looking at the cert series submitted for one, and the auction houses and TPGs found repeat offenders that helped with the search as well.

 

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Thats really not what he said though.

 

Forget the counterfeits, I am more surprised by the number of + grades.

They = nearly 1.6% of the total.

 

baseball21, posted: "Names and factual confirmed info would be the number one thing for any database. You had nention eariler "It's a shame that any customer (crooked or unwary) that sends in a C/F is not put into a data base with name, city/country and description of the fake."

That's correct: JeffB from XXX XXXX St, Modesto CA (phone # & Email) submitted a C/F $3 on 6/19 to ICG.

"Why should a mistake from a submitter get put into a data base? There's a huge difference between a mistake and someone trying to make a bunch of money out off of fakes, and either way the information should have to be correct and verified by more than a submission form."

You are probably an up-and-up person. Would you like to take a guess at how many data bases your info is in ???

"No one likes people peddling fakes, but no one should get targeted or put on a list just because of the name put on a submission form."

Says who? The counterfeiters? Perhaps this information is already kept by a TPGS. The only difference is that it would be shared with other grading services. Jeff B would not ever know he was on any such list. JUST AS YOU ARE IGNORANT OF THE LISTS YOU MIGHT BE ON - understand?

"It's essentially arguing to just punish/target people for other peoples wrong doing which is being argued in many aspects of society today."

Please stop posting your assumptions to cloud up my suggestion. How did the word "punish" come up in your mind?

"Even worse such a list will do little to impact the overall state, the overwhelming majority of fakes are sold raw and the biggest threats are at LCS and shows where theres no tracing it. You can look into something or contact the submitter about where it came from if it is that good without demonizing someone."

It may come as a surprise to you but lots of bad stuff goes on in the coin business without TPGS involvement. Who cares! You, me, or any TPGS cannot stop it. Your suggestion to contact the submitter is done occasionally when a deceptive C/F is sent in.

"The simple fact of saying who cares what name they used just proves this shouldn't be a thing."

Nonsense. How many Email addresses do you have? How many names do you post under. I have several of both. If I were a crook, I'd also have several.

 

JY Posted:"No offense, but I think you missed the point! Would be primarily looking at the types of counterfeits submitted and repeat offenders. I found a large number of counterfeits by looking at the cert series submitted for one, and the auction houses and TPGs found repeat offenders that helped with the search as well."


baseball21, replied: "Thats really not what he said though."



I said look for repeat offenders. How are you going to know who is a repeat offender w/o recording ALL offenders, even the poor souls who have purchased a C/F. Including a description of the fake coin fake is OBVIOUS.

 

People will become wary of TPGSes if a universal counterfeit submitter database is created. Does a person who wants a coin authenticated really want to take the risk of being placed into a counterfeit submitter database if their coin turns out to be fake?

 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

What part of "secret file" don't you guys get. ALL submitters are ALREADY in a data base.
My "recommendation" is that TPGS should share more than they have done in the past.

 

I'm not ignorant of anything. I do not trust the judgement to be in charge of such a list. I would hope that other TPGs would ignore such a list as it can at the very least be very easily abused with unverifiable information or even to just get them to hurt their customer base to try and steal business. Such a shared list would be more beneficial to the smaller TPGs getting customer information from the first tier as well. I'm very well aware of all the data mining that occurs by companies probably much more so than you are and well aware of what value it would have for the smaller ones if the big boys shared their customer information like that

 

baseball21, posted: "I'm not ignorant of anything."

Really, how many lists are you on?

"I do not trust the judgement to be in charge of such a list."

What part of THERE ALREADY IS A LIST didn't you comprehend?

"I would hope that other TPGs would ignore such a list as it can at the very least be very easily abused with unverifiable information or even to just get them to hurt their customer base to try and steal business. Such a shared list would be more beneficial to the smaller TPGs getting customer information from the first tier as well. I'm very well aware of all the data mining that occurs by companies probably much more so than you are and well aware of what value it would have for the smaller ones if the big boys shared their customer information like that."

Take a guess at which submitters would 'Make The List" of secretly shared repeat offenders. I gave you a tiny hint.

 

Sure, put my name, address, phone, and email into yet another secretly shared database, with an annotation that I submit gold coins with that as the return address. What could possibly go wrong?

There are lots of things we can do that would reduce counterfeiting (or any other crime), as long as the organizations doing them are infallible and incorruptible. Since we're short on infallible, incorruptible organizations, we have to balance risks of action against risks of inaction.

 

https://www.justice.gov/usao-mdfl/pr/tampa-coin-dealer-sentenced-conspiracy-commit-bank-fraud

https://www.tampabay.com/news/publi...fe-sentenced-to-20-months-in-federal/2256573/

https://www.heraldtribune.com/story...ffe-admits-conspiring-to-defraud/29317469007/

https://www.icgcoin.com/team-view/mark-yaffe/

 

No jeff, only if you make the "cut."

Cut: Several attempts to get C/F or fraudulently altered coin s past a major TPGS.

 

Baseball, it is clear to me that you believe anything you read in the press. I guess you believe in that "Russian" business too. Unfortunately, you only know what you read and not the rest of the story.

Additionally, posting your lame attempt at changing the discussion when everything you have posted is based on paranoid assumptions that have been rebutted indicates you have nothing left.

I'll bet if PCGS announces that they are doing this, you'll get a cramp in your fingers backtracking your present opinion.

 

Anyone think my name isn't in the TPG "data base"?

I do, but I don't lose sleep over it...

 

I don't run a TPGS, but I do work with databases.

The database is what you use to MAKE the "cut". How can you tell who's submitted multiple bad coins, unless you track every person that ever submits a bad coin?

 

So tell the story then.

 

I get accused of being a PCGS employee alot when I have never worked for any TPG ever. There are some people that are trying to do good, but we have enough databases already.

Cleaning up coin doctors and dealers first would have a better impact

 

"jeffB, posted: "I don't run a TPGS, but I do work with databases.

The database is what you use to MAKE the "cut". How can you tell who's submitted multiple bad coins, unless you track every person that ever submits a bad coin?"

Hey, the light bulb went on but that's not really necessary! Look, a normal young person inputting coins and shipping them out knows who the customers are and what they sent in. Heck, decades ago I could remember what the coins looked like in an order, what the status of an order was if given one of the better/odd/unusual coins in the order, etc. It was easy. I had a young brain, and I like to think an almost photographic memory. Of course, we only received between 200 and 500 coins a week. I'm only half good at it now due to old age and a larger volume. Now, I only track the customers who send the kind of fakes that PCGS slabs as genuine. What I find is after trying to pass ICG a few times the crooks give up. Makes things interesting because they are going to get something past us. We are not perfect. Additionally, I'm not interested in the customers sending in 95% of the C/F's I see because detecting them is "gravy." I hope they continue to send it the junk fakes that still fool many collectors/dealers. Pays the light bill.

So in summary as I'm really getting tired of posting:

I just read my original post that started this again. I'm the bad guy who waisted the time of two posters in this thread. I should have written that when a TPGS sees a state-of-the-art dangerous C/F (like the ones slabbed as genuine already) there should be a private database (access given to TPGS and others like some consultants) to alert other TPGS of suspicious coins. Note, this has been done in the past already with a simple phone call to one or more TPGS's including the customer's name and location. Oh MY what's next, a database.

 

Baseball,

Don't be lazy. Read the trial transcript and see how the deal was cut. If you were more informed about how the US Un-justice system works you wouldn't be so fast to crap up a discussion with things that don't apply and you would possibly be more concerned about the verdict in a trial that just finished today (which is just as off limits on CT as what you just requested from me) and not about coins or your "pet" TPGS!

 

Not a single thing about that that I'd argue against. I'd hope that's already happening, at least informally...?