Odd Mark on Silver Franklin and Kennedy Half Dollars

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by MixtureNo79, Apr 25, 2013.

  1. MixtureNo79

    MixtureNo79 Active Member

    A few weeks ago I was looking at one of my coins which was supposedly a proof 1963 Franklin half. I noticed a mark on Franklin's cheek, so I looked closer, and it was an odd mark, obviously made by someone.

    I did an internet search and found a picture of one with the same marking. It was kind of ironic, because the one I found was a "Bugs Bunny" Franklin, which is one where he appears to have an overbite. But the photo had the same marking on it as my coin, which actually looks like two teeth in a way. It is two downward pointing triangles connected by a line above them. Sort of looks like teeth.

    Then tonight, I was going through some other coins, and I found a 64 Kennedy with what looks like the same mark on the back of his neck.

    Has anyone ever noticed this and know what this is? I am mad that my "proof" coin has this on it, but also extremely curious. What is this?! :scratch:
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Collector1966

    Collector1966 Senior Member

    I think what you're seeing here are scars that are left behind when the reeded edge of one coin strikes the field/design of another coin.
     
  4. talkcoin

    talkcoin Well-Known Member

    I see these marks mostly in the devices rather than in the fields of my Kennedy's. They are obviously PMD hits of some sort, maybe from coin counting machines spitting them out at high-rate speeds. It's too deep to happen while in a mint bag and almost seems like they are sometimes deep enough to constitute metal movement (which normally gets a coin bodied by the TPG). I have seen TPG'ed MS coins with these same exact hits.

    p.s. your photo of the hit looks like a pair of 1960's style Ray Ban Cat Eyes :smile
     
  5. yakpoo

    yakpoo Member

    Typical bag mark as reported by Collector1966 above...(imho).
     
  6. MixtureNo79

    MixtureNo79 Active Member

    Thanks talkcoin,

    What do you mean by "gets a coin bodied by the TPG?" I agree this type of mark could not happen unless one coin (or something) struck another at a pretty high rate of speed. I don't think casually clanking together would do it.
     
  7. MixtureNo79

    MixtureNo79 Active Member

    Okay Yakpoo and Collector1966, as I have been thinking about this, do you mean the coins were maybe in a bag with many others and maybe due to a lot of weight (with them being silver especially), the side of one coin dug in to the face of another?

    Thanks
     
  8. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    Either that, or A.A. Weinman is trying to make his mark from the dead..........
     
  9. Hobo

    Hobo Squirrel Hater

    The reed marks could have been made seconds after the coin was struck. After Business Strike coins are struck (not Proof coins) they are ejected from the coining chamber of the coin press and they fall into a hopper. The distance the coins drop into the hopper is in the range of a foot or so. Large coins (like a Half Dollar) falling that distance will have enough energy to leave a reed mark on a coin that it lands on if it strikes that coin with its edge.

    Also, when a coin is struck it heats up. (See for yourself - smash a coin or a nail on an anvil with a hammer and see if it is hotter than before being smashed). The hot metal is softer and more susceptible to damage (e.g., another coin falling edge first onto it).
     
  10. talkcoin

    talkcoin Well-Known Member

    by bodied I meant body-bagged, which was a term used before TPG's slabbed 'Genuine' Details coins. They would simply refuse to grade and slab a coin if it were a problem coin (i.e. counterfeit, improperly cleaned, whizzed, artificial toning, tooled, damaged or filed rims, environmental damage, or any PMD metal movement) and return to sender in a 2x2 flip.

    I think Hobo nailed it with the minting process in explaining those marks, as I have seen MS coins slabbed with them. Hence, using a coin counting machine (as I guessed in my above post) would result in a coin being circulated and therefore would not be intentionally slabbed as MS.
     
  11. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    Use of a counting machine would not render a MS coin circulated. (Although it can cause damage that would make a MS coin ungradable.)

    Hobo has nailed one way such marks can be created. They can also be created in the mint bags when you consider how they were handled. It wasn't gently and one bag 55 pound bag slamming down on top of another could definitely cause damage to the coins inside depending on how they are arranged. The heating of the coins from the striking almost certainly has nothing to do with it though. The coins will not heat to more than about 200 degrees at most from the strike and a 200 degree coin is not going to be that much softer than a 70 degree coin (The metal melts at well over 1000 degrees). Also the coin will cool very quickly after striking.

    And if that first picture is your Franklin it is either not a proof, or a badly mishandled one, possibly recovered from a scrap silver bucket.
     
  12. MixtureNo79

    MixtureNo79 Active Member

    Hi Conder,

    "Scrap silver bucket"? Seriously? I know it is not proof but....
     
  13. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    You're a pipe smoker, aren't you old fellow? :)
     
  14. MixtureNo79

    MixtureNo79 Active Member

  15. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    Don't burn your tongue. I did that starting out.........:)
     
  16. spirityoda

    spirityoda Coin Junky

    vampire teeth marks lol
     
  17. talkcoin

    talkcoin Well-Known Member

    I think he was implying that if it were a proof coin, it may have been mishandled and accidentally or intentionally (after being mishandled) ended up in a "scrap silver bucket." I'm pretty sure he wasn't implying that your coin is junk, but rather giving the best answer to your initial question. Seriously :)
     
  18. MixtureNo79

    MixtureNo79 Active Member

    Pipe Smoking

    That is my user name because when I became a CoinTalk member I was trying to think of a user name and suddenly noticed the tobacco can sitting on my desk which had many of my father's coins inside.

    He was a big pipe smoker. He is not around anymore but his tobacco can full of silver coins is still here with me! I smoked some when younger (not pipes) but gave it up a long time ago.

    I don't miss smoking that much but one thing I do miss was opening one of those cans and taking a whiff of that tobacco!
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page