NY billionaire returns stolen antiquities

He tried to cross the border with them and had no proof of ownership. I don't see anything there about black-clad storm troopers seizing them from his home.

 

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One thing that I find particularly troubling is that ancient coins and antiquities are as a class uniquely 'presumed stolen' with the burden falling on the accused to prove they are not. I miss the good ol' days when the burden of proof with regard to theft and other crimes fell on the state.

 

Everyone knows that storm troopers only illegally confiscate droids.

As to the coins, I have linked to the article and I’ll let people who care to read it draw their own conclusions about how valid they think the HSI case was and whether it is a precedent worthy of concern. I happen to think it is a concerning precedent. They were seized by US CBP. The coins were already in the US and there is no MOU with Afghanistan. Why was proof of ownership even needed in this case and what was demanded as proof? It seems the coins were presumed illegal until proved otherwise. We don’t know many of the specifics but we do know that some of the “evidence” to justify the seizure was scientifically dubious to put it mildly (BD is evidence of illegal excavation now?). This willingness to resort to blatant misrepresentation to justify taking low value coins should, by itself, be enough to cause disquiet even to conscientious and ethical collectors. My point is that it is not just a crackpot concern.

 

OK, I agree that the case against this guy sounds completely ridiculous and fabricated. But I am really not personally concerned for my coins -- or antiquities -- once I have them, and the story doesn't make me concerned. I won't be carrying them across the border, though!

 

That is when the terrorists don't just destroy the cultural artifacts.

 

They destroy (mostly for the camera) what they cannot sell. They also destroy ancient buildings, like in Palmyra, because some believe there could be gold hidden inside the stones. They don't know how ancient people could do it, but many believe they did.

 

But the spoils go to the victors.My beef with countries swooping in and collecting is that for 300years it sat there till they found it and now you want it?Spain should of given a finders fee 10/20% plus fees.I could say if I was a treasure hunter knowing how countries like to operate I am sorry but some smelting might be in order.

Sorry Panzerman to much of a repeat

 

Better they sell coins ‘illegally’ internationally than melt them down for melt. Apparently, such is already happening in Afghanistan with older silver coins.

 

At least Palmyra isn't controlled by Isis anymore. I have read that they're attempting to piece together, and otherwise reconstruct, a lot of what was destroyed.

https://www.theartnewspaper.com/202...ent-palmyra-will-be-rebuilt-after-isis-damage

 

Three conspiracy theorists walk into a bar. You can’t tell me that’s a coincidence!

 

Are these the three you saw?...

 

In terms of the Blaine, WA case, here's what I previously wrote about it (not sure how to link to specific posts).

From my reading of the article, though, the subject was denied entry into Canada (reasons not provided), which made US customs suspicious on his reentry. Having 51 ancient coins on hand then didn't help his cause.

Thinking a bit more about the Blaine WA case, I can guess what may have happened:

My wife is from that part of the world (Tajikistan). There, it was common for families to have some old coins. Her family had a number of gold ones, though she thinks most were from the czars' time. In her grandmother's time they were used to pay for brides. Few families do this today, though my in-laws "suggested" a token single gold coin, to which my parents freaked.

When she came to this country, it was impossible to take them. Authorities at the airport saw on their passports that they're Jewish and moving to America, so they ordered them to strip, had them hand over all rings, and searched everywhere for anything remotely of value. My wife's parents therefore buried the coins, and someday they'll be someone else's hoard. Other artifacts, such as ancient carpets, were sold to Israeli collectors who travelled there and knew emigrants had no choice but to accept the bargain prices they offered.

However, border control in Afghanistan was probably overseen by the US, so I would hope they wouldn't allow such treatment. It was therefore probably possible for him to bring the coins.

Families often ask each other to bring things, so he was probably taking them to some friend in Canada. There, I'm guessing he was denied due to a paperwork issue that he wasn't aware of.

Coming back into the US, the coins were immediately suspect. Technically, since Afghanistan didn't approve their move, they were looted coins. In fear of what the government could do to him, the guy gladly signed away the coins in favor of being arrested and/or hiring a lawyer that he couldn't afford.

I have no idea if that's what happened, but this is one plausible version.

Regardless what happened, I don't think it applies to most of us unless we have deep accents, foreign passports, and like to travel between the US and Canada often with bunches of ancient coins.

 

I apologize for the use of "Storm Troopers". I guess I watch the Star Wars movies too many times. It is actually meant as a metaphor for law enforcement that "bang" on your doors when they want to talk to you. (I think they wear suits now.) I am grateful that I only collect American coins and currency as well as a few Canadian. I did inherit some foreign coins from the time my father served in a submarine in the South Pacific. I even have a pfennig from Germany and some other European coins when we live in Europe while my father was stationed a Landsthul (sp?).

 

Vance is an overly ambitious publicity hungry man of zero character - it isn't a surprise he is involved.

 

No way Vance is just going to retire - he will be begging for public office. If he ever runs I intend to donate whatever I can to whoever is running against him. The man has no character, just like his father,

 

I think he's no longer DA.

 

He still is. However, his term is up on the 1st of January, if I'm not mistaken.

 

But the ADA in charge of the antiquities unit will still be there.

 

Crusader or not, justice in America is still very indulgent on antiquities trafficking. A dealer (no name, I don't want to be banned), after denying first, pleaded guilty in an Egyptian antiquities trafficking case. All he got was a $ 1000.00 fine!