Numismatik Lanz - Buyer Beware

There's much worse and everywhere still uses leaches and maggots in the right situations, however some places rely on them more than others. That said I would never voluntarily go there for medical care

 

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Ya can't fix 'stupid', can ya?

 

Lanz offered him the amount the coin sold for. That’s all he could possibly get from EBay or PayPal. Neither eBay or PayPal could garnish funds from Lanz for more than the time in dispute sold for.

 

How about if we dragged you out 'kicking and screaming'?

I hear it's lovely this time of the year.......

 

It sounded like he only offered him the amount the coin resold for the 2nd time which was less than half of what he paid which eBay or PayPal would definitely not go along with

If he gave a full refund to his purchase price yes there would be nothing more they would do

 

Lol you would have too, I try and avoid dictatorships

 

I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous.

Don't excuse fraud. If someone with a reputation for selling fakes sells you a fake, they've still committed fraud, and they're liable, not you. Yes, you may have acted unwisely; yes, your odds of being made whole may be poor. Yes, you can even be "ashamed" if you like. But you haven't agreed to be ripped off, and you don't have to sit back and take it.

 

Caveat Emptor. Normally I wouldn't take the side of someone who in my opinion probably committed criminal theft, civil theft, conversion of property, and fraud...but in this case everyone (including OP) knows this guy is a snake, yet knowing that he still chose to buy a coin from the snake. So yeah, Caveat Emptor.

 

Was it smart, no and he will probably even tell you that. That said, doesn't mean he has to take some bogus half return when eBay and PayPal are well known to force returns even on sellers that didn't actually do anything wrong

 

You were a jerk for venturing into dangerous waters. And you knew what you were doing. You knew the history behind this fellow.

Kripes, save youself. OP should have. I certainly can't do it and neither can you Jeff (dear fellow)........

 

Me? I've yet to buy my first ancient from anyone.

I'm sorry, I guess I don't understand the point you're trying to make.

 

After seeing this thread, if and when I start collecting Ancients, I'm only getting NGC slabbed ancients. Who wants a fake that tricked Sears and other experts as well?

 

It's not as cut and dry as you might think. Also if you decide to get into ancients remember NGC does not guarantee coins they encapsulate. Just like everyone has said "know the coin or know the seller." Good luck with whatever you decide!

 

I won this "sestertius" in an Oblos auction about a few years ago. A number of months later I saw the exact same coin down to every nick and detail in a Lanz auction. I e-mailed Oblos, and the very next morning they had responded to me , agreeing that this coin was a forgery. They promptly returned every penny I paid along with deepest regrets for my troubles.
I then sent an e-mail to Lanz auctions explaining what happened and Oblos also e-mailed Lanz , explaining in German what had happened and drew their attention to their listed fake sestertius. Lanz responded to me as well as to Oblos, something to the effect that sadly mistakes can happen. That's all well and good, however, THEY STILL AUCTIONED OFF THEIR FAKE COIN AND DID NOT WITHDRAW IT FROM THEIR AUCTION! There just is no excuse for that. It's called deceit.

 

"The Murcus coin looks fake due to the lack of metal flow. I don't think it's struck. It has nothing to due with style or dies. I also don't like the Gorny coin or the Roma coin. They all look pressed."

The lack of metal flow is due to smoothing which is removing small flow lines on the surface. Smoothing is mentioned in descritpion.

"Pointing to die links as proof of authenticity when the links you point to are suspicious as well doesn’t help to prove your point."

The Vienna Museum piece is not suspicious and at least from the same artist .
I have mentioned Andrew McCabe, who has the required literature with possibly all known authentic examples to verify that the dies are fine. (He can do die studies)

TypeCoin971793: (post #65) "I said that one was fairly obvious. The style is just wrong"

If someone is pretending a coin is fake, people who are not familiar with an issue are often starting to speculate why and most of this is nonsense. TypeCoin971793 pretended that the Murcus from Lanz is from modern hand cutted dies, this is the only possibility that the style can be wrong. And this is not true.

I do not like especially the Gorny piece and the Roma piece is not looking completely convincing too (soapy surface). I do not pretend that they must be fake but I would not buy them or want to have them.

To refer to suspicious coins sold by other auction houses is not helping to prove that the coin is authentic, that was not my intention but it shows that it is not necessarly much saver to buy from other auciton houses (because the authenticating skills of the experts of the different aution houses are very different from extremely good to not so good if it comes to some emissions).

The % rate of fakes in some auctions of reputable auction houses is much higher.

Ira and Larry Goldberg Auctioneers hsa in current auction at least 2 fakes possibly 3 Greek fakes while offering only 42 Greek coins is this really better than LANZ ?

https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=3220&lot=1631

The Balas is a transfer die fake, there is a hole in the hair and some of the fakes are to heavy and too light and they made some die links which are

ROBERT KOKOTAILO :"The basic problem is: how can two coins struck at two different mints, most likely more than a year apart, share a common obverse die?"

Not sure if this 2 die links are actually a problem as "ROBERT KOKOTAILO" pretends but there exist actually more die links which is very suspicious.

ROBERT KOKOTAILO : "It is very likely that the dies from which these coins were struck were cut in modern day Beirut (Lebanon)"

This is not correct they are transfer die fakes with typical transfer die problems, detail loss, defects, soapy surface (not always the case).

http://www.calgarycoin.com/reference/fakes/examples/fakebalas.htm


https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=3220&lot=1612

The Alexander is a fake from modern Bulgarian dies, I have one from the same dies and some from most likely same artist (idential individual style).
The style is wrong and the planchet looks off too.

No die matches or die links known to authentic coins and no authentic coins known from same artist. Coins of this dies only known less than 30 years. Bu many fakes with same style from most likely same artis known for different mints and rulers and times which is impossible, except the artist lived hundreds of years and was travelling through the ancient world to mint everywhere new dies but of most issues only 1 pair of die.

I guess that some impossible die links do exist too, but too lazy too look because even without this they are obvious fakes.

And obverse die is published

Most likely Bulgarian - struck from modern dies - style is modern. Obverse tends to be concave.

IBSCC Bulletin on Counterfeits BOCS Vol 16 No.1 1991 Page 18 Fig 6

http://forgerynetwork.com/asset.aspx?id=~x~c5f~x~o6ICGE=

The athen tetradrachm looks cast on picture, I do not say the coin must be fake but the coin is at least very suspicious !

https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=3220&lot=1619

 

I agree with all this. There appear to have been multiple fake Murcus types marketed in recent years (and a couple of entirely genuine ones too; bizarrely the genuine ones sold for more modest prices partly because they have various strike and surface problems that are characteristic of the genuine coins whereas the pressed fakes looked nice at first glance to non experts)

 

I am not related to Dr. Lanz.

Does it really make sense that I have posted some fakes offered or sold by him at auction or at ebay, which were withdrawn if I would be him or if I would be one of his employees? I do generally only post fakes which are imho interesting for others, in most cases I do only notified auction house and added them to my fake folder on usb drive. I think that he would fire me because I would reject too many coins and would make so his consignors angry!
I would only sell coins which are without a doubt authentic. But it seems like he is sometimes selling problematic coins too (smoothed silver coins, repatinated bronze coins etc.) as long as he thinks that they are still fine and there is not a really strong evidence that they are fake. he would never ever sell intentionally a fake coin but if you sell problematic there is a high chance that some of them are fake. I would have never ever sold any of the 3 coins posted by Barry Murphy not because they must be fake but because they do look suspicious and I would not sell any coin which is not without a doubt authentic.

For example the cast Augustus at his last auction

http://forgerynetwork.com/asset.aspx?id=hjvvT5OXG~x~Q=

https://www.sixbid.com/de/numismatik-lanz-muenchen/4928/category/4104953/lot

I had good arguments why the coin is fake (artificial patina, mother is know and so one). So it was withdrawn !

And he is withdrawing fakes like other dealers and auction houses too before, while and after auctions if there is evidence that they are really fake.

He gifted me an expensive fake gold coin (real gold), which he has withdrawn and taken back from buyer and which the buyer didn´t want to have back.
He knows that I do collect fakes


Again if there is any real evidence that the coin is really fake and Dr. Lanz will be notified you will get your money back.


But I do not care about NGC condemnation without any detailed and verifiable evidence given why the coin must be fake.

NGC is not perfect they have slabbed fakes in the past, too.
So if the employees of NGC are only humans and not perfect why shouldn´t they be able to condemn an authentic coin, too?

I guess that the electrum stater is actually fake if it is true what Barry Murphy wrote about it. But this information should be send to Dr. Lanz

 

He probably meant that it was Alan Walker's mistake and yours to name the coin a fake and not his own mistake

I think we can start a thread of jokes replacing Chuck Norris by Lanz.

Time waits for no man. Unless that man is Hubert Lanz.

 

Lolli, you are missing the point. If Lanz was never going to refund my money, he never should have accepted the return. Lanz harshly CLEANED and SOLD a coin that did not belong to him, WITHOUT permission, then kept hundreds of Euro's of my money. Earlier you said this was an act of kindness, pardon me for being a bit skeptical of your motives.

 

That's the definition of a Conflict of Interest