Numismatic Idiots Selling Coins on Ebay

I guess what we did must be classified as a comment instead of a complaint, in his mind? I would think they qualify as a complaint, but I also guess that in his mind, you must buy it in order to be able to complain? :whistle:

To the layman, he's actually right in his reply (condition stipulation) but if he's been selling coins for 30 years, he doesn't qualify as a layman so he should know the difference and should be able to properly label a coin. I've been collecting DBC's for almost 3 months now and I know the difference but maybe I have CT to thank for me not thinking wrongly with this matter and I've had my thinking corrected many times on here with other things.

His reply to you was right in line with the one he sent me but I never argued his reasoning of using condition as an excuse for it not mattering? I just don't get that! With that kind of reasoning, he could label a no-date DBC as a no-date CBC, since, in the condition, it really doesn't matter what you call them, you can't see the date anyways. :goof:

Not all closed minds can be opened! :headbang:

Ribbit

 

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Well, all the diligence worked. He has added a blurb onto the auction saying that he doesn't want any more questions about the coin. He said thinks it's an 1800/179, but look at the pictures and decide for yourself.

So, nice work, everyone.

 

At least he admits/creates doubt to the original title. :thumb:

That was probably extremely hard for him to do but I guess he had more than two peeps questioning it and it was easier to add a blurb than to answer all the questions? hya:

Ain't CoinTalk wonderful! :thumb:

Ribbit

 

this was my reply to him
"well thats funny, because of out of those 30 years, I am now your "first"
complaint.
along with 2 of my friends that have also "complained" to you.
Think before you type, AND edit your title"
and this was the reply...


" KISS MY ASS, AND MIND YOUR OWN DAMN BUSINESS, I KNOW WHAT THE COIN IS, I CHANGED THE DESCRIPTION, EVERYONE THAT HAS SENT ME A QUESTION ABOUT THIS COIN HAS BEEN ADDED TO MY BLOCKED BIDDER LIST, DON'T BOTHER EMAILING ME ANYMORE, ALL YOUR AMAILS WILL BE AUTOMATICALLY DELED."

 

It looks like he got a little frustrated with us and pulled the auction?

Now we'll have to watch to see how he re-lists it.

Ribbit

 

Here's another one for us to watch and comment on:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130238326713&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=003

Here's my message to him (verbatim):

I'm not sure if you are aware of Ebay Policy but by saying this is a 1804 One Cent, you have defined it purely and since it isn't a One Cent but rather, a Half Cent, the buyer can easily claim fraud and you will have to provide a full refund and you will probably end up with negative feedback, which sucks.

Just by adding the Q&A's to the listing isn't good enough. It has to be stated within the listing itself, which means before the pictures and not at the bottom of the page.

If you don't want negative feedback or to be forced to give a refund, I would amend the listing and properly clarify it is a Half Cent, since many have questioned it and several have stipulated such and since your vision is poor and can't see the plain-as-day HALF CENT written on the reverse, you should listen to those of us that know these better than you.

George

That was short and to the point and can't be misunderstood by the seller! :hammer: And by the current bid, it's clear there are numismatic idiots bidding on coins on Ebay so numismatic idiots selling coins on Ebay, have a large audience that will buy their trumped-up wares. :goofer:

Ribbit

Ps: It could be claimed that the coin is worth the current bid but considering it's practically impossible to tell if it is a Plain 4 or Crosslet 4, little-lone decipher the reverse, how can the variety be ascertained to determine proper value? :goof:

Pps: After further scrutiny, I've narrowed the variety down to two possibilities - C-9 (Common) or C-10 (Very Common). It has stems and they point to the center of the last A in AMERICA and the top of the 4 in the date doesn't appear to touch the bottom of the bust. So its book value is somewhere between $20 to $40. I believe this one fully proves there are numismatic idiots buying coins on Ebay! :goof:

 

This seller might have been in the dark about ebay rules. They were offering a coin for auction, then putting messages on the auction stating what their offers were in their real life store. They said if the ebay auction price did'nt beat the in store offer it would be ended early. This can work if you have an item listed in an ebay store, but not in a real life store. I'm not an ebay rules expert, but this seller seemed to be driving in the wrong lane. (i did'nt save the auction link, sorry).

 

So does anyone want to take a stab at what a AG/FR-2 1804 C-10 Half-Cent is worth? I'd say around $30 to $40 tops, but our latest scam artist got $687 for his. Here's his reply to my message to him:

I said it in the ad I know nothing about this type coin. The coins reverse is so badly pitted I can not read much of at all. even with 6 x loop. Just a few letters here and there. I thought the pictures alone would answer any questions. I also said in there cheerful refund given if not happy. to one of the first questions. I do think your right about having to relist it as a half cent...........Many thanks George for clearing this up for me. In the Dark Bruce

I never said anything about relisting it, I said he needed to amend it and clarify that it wasn't a ONE CENT but rather, a HALF-CENT. Since it's clear to me that he's scamming the buyer, I sent a reply to him:

Considering it's worth $30 to $40 dollars, you should expect problems.

Ribbit

Then I sent a message to the buyer:

You recently purchased a 1804 coin for a little over $600.00 and while it was listed as a 1804 ONE CENT, it was actually a 1804 HALF-CENT and worth about $40.00. The seller was told this repeatedly but refused to correct the listing.

I thought you would want to know this now before going through weeks of trying to get a refund thru PayPal.

George

Ps: Here is what you bought:

http://www.coinfacts.com/half_cents/1804_half_cents/1804_half_cent_c10.htm

I also notified Ebay about the fraud but they didn't do anything. You can easily see the top pillars of the H, of HALF, on the coin you bought so it is extremely obvious what it is and if you compare the picture in the link above, you will see everything matches up to what you bought.

I feel sorry for peeps who don't know what to look for to keep from getting scammed but when I do everything within my power to stop harm from occurring and harm still occurs, I will do what I can to help the poor smuck and with what I did, it violates Ebay's policy of not interfering in a sale but since Ebay didn't do what was right and pull the auction, I had to interfere.

Ribbit

 

:]

 

Update on latest post:

The buyer replied to my message:

THANK YOU FOR YOUR INFORMATION. I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. WILL BE COMMUNICATING WITH SELLER OF COIN AND HOPE EVERYTHING GOES WELL. THANKS AGAIN. ALEX

I replied back:

Please keep me informed as to what happens. I posted this on a Coin Chat Forum so we could watch the auction and I'm sure others emailed the seller about it being a Half-Cent and not a One-Cent. We take fraudulent listings like this serious!

George

Ps: You should join a Coin Forum so you can learn from others. The one I'm a member of is CoinTalk.org and it's totally free and I've learned so much from the other members there and I try to help with what I know, which are the early coppers.

Now I'm concerned that the seller will give the 2nd highest bidder a 2nd chance offer and still con someone? I don't know how to do anything about that possibility.

Ribbit

 

i hope you have a good lawyer you know you can be sued by ebay for interfering in their auctions i might get on their customer panel if i do i will let you guys know and then we can point out all these horror stories

 

Final update:

Buyer replied:

GEORGE:I HAVE BEEN IN TOUCH WITH THE SELLER AND HE IS REIMBURSING MY PAYMENT THROUGH PAY PAL AND IS CANCELING THE LISTING. HE ALSO SENDS HIS APOLOGY. WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS MONDAY. THANKS AGAIN FOR YOU CONCERN REALLY, REALLY DO APPRECIATE IT. ALEX. PS: WILL LOOK INTO CoinTalk,org.

I'm glad he was able to deal with this before it was shipped. Also, I hope to see him here as a new member. :thumb:

Ribbit

 

I welcome Ebay trying to sue me over situations like this. I will eat their lunch!

Ribbit

Ps: I went through the normal channels and they didn't pull it. The buyer needed to be protected and Ebay failed to protect him, so I did. I know many peeps here that would do the same thing!

 

part of my sugestions for overhaul are step in between and take ownership otherwise i am out. the rules today favor scamsters and they agreed lets see what happens

 

When I reported it, I had such little space to explain why it was fraudulent, I didn't cover much. Facts like this is what's going to end up costing Ebay a small fortune in legal suits because it goes to prove Ebay isn't doing what it can to stop the scammers, and it further proves Ebay doesn't want to stop them.

Ribbit

 

Final update on the last posting:

Buyer has received full refund and is glad he didn't get taken and/or have to go through the PayPal refund nightmare. So this situation turned out otay!

Ribbit

 

Here's another interesting auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1807-Draped-Bus...ryZ11947QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

The thing to notice is the supposed rarity - R-5. Heritage says R-3 and CoinFacts says R-4, so I emailed the seller this comment:

By Heritage, this is a R-3 but it could go a low R-4 but it is not a R-5. If you are using outdated material to classify your coins, you should update your reference material if you are going to stipulate rarity because it violates Ebay's fraud policy covering listing coins.

It would be best to properly label rarity.

George

Now to wait and see what the seller does?

Ribbit

 

Hello, I happen to be one of those ignorant buyers on ebay (lol). I hope that this website will help me to learn more as I am very new at coin collecting and dont really know anything about it. All I know is that it interest me. Pretty dangerous huh??? Maybe I will be lucky enough to learn a little bit from more experienced collectors before I make so many costly mistakes. Thanks!!!! Chris

 

I still make mistakes, just fewer than I used to.

Welcome to CoinTalk. :hail: You're in a great place to learn! :thumb:

Ribbit

 

On the last edition, the seller has replied:

Thanks for the help. You know I am going by what my Great-Uncle has them identified as on the 2 X 2 envelopes. He has not looked at them in about 50 - 60 years and the only book we have is the 1958 Issue of Sheldon's Penny Whimsy which supports the R-5 in this case. I am aware that as more examples of a variety are found the Rarity Scale Value is adjusted.

I'd think more of you if rather then suggesting FRAUD you could really be helpful and reveal your reference source. You are telling me that you have better and newer information on this penny for sure but you can not recall or are not willing to share some type of trade secret. Or , It would take 1 more sentence of effort then you have energy to type at this time?

Also , try to have a bit of faith. I know there is a lot of BOGUS going on in the world right now but check my feedback and what you see is what you get.

I replied, in turn:

I did give you my source - Heritage (Heritage Auctions www.ha.com). My other source was CoinFacts and they had it listed as a R-4, that's why I said it could go either way (R-3 or low R-4).

I agree on the bogus auctions and I didn't say yours is/was. I said it should be corrected so as to not violate Ebay policy. I actually look at quite a bit of your coppers, since that is what I collect but I haven't bought any from you yet, because you haven't had anything I could use or if you did, it went higher than I was willing to pay.

As to feedback, I've seen peeps selling counterfeit coins with 100% positive feedback, so feedback isn't a great source to use to determine if the seller is legit or not, but it can be. I am currently trying to get a refund from a seller who sold me a counterfeit and used their 100% feedback as a selling point. I'm not sure how that will turn out since the package is stuck in Customs with no idea of when they will finally deliver it and PayPal has already closed it on me once but I got them to re-open it and that was harder than pulling teeth, if you know what I mean.

Like I said earlier, I've looked at your coppers many times in the past and even put one of your current ones on watch, since it is one I could use in my collection but I would have deleted it if you didn't correct the listing currently being discussed.

This past weekend I watched a 1804 half-cent being sold as a one-cent and the seller refused to correct the listing, even after several people informed him of his error and the poor smuck that bought it, paid almost $800 for it and it was a FR-2 1804 C-10 and only worth about $30. And the other auction wasn't as bad, he just listed a 1800/79 as a 1800/1798 and didn't understand there was a difference in the two (1800/1798 is a 1st hair style and a 1800/79 is a 2nd hair style). Needless to say, he did finally correct it but only after being inundated with messages from EAC collectors who also felt like I did, that it was wrong to list it as he did, since the 1st hair style commands a higher price. The poor smuck that got duped by the 1804 half-cent received all the information he needed to determine he had been had and has since received a full refund, prior to the coin being shipped out, so that turned out good also.

So your listing isn't as bad as some I've seen recently but they wouldn't correct their error. Will you?

Ribbit


Now to see if he corrects it or not? I think he will.

Ribbit