Numismatic Ethics

this reminds me of an online comic...
(from Cyanide and Happiness)

 

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magman that made my day lol:hail:

 

One more point..... if you are a dealer with something for sale at a certain price that is posted clearly and it represents a killer deal... I will buy without saying a word.. YOU HAVE SET THE TERMS OF THE SALE, NOT ME. If you missed something it is your fault, not mine.

If you have one price on the coin, and verbally tell me another price (like missing a zero) that is an honest mistake. If I were to try to purchase the item at the stated price (missing a zero)..... that would be immoral.

I'm sorry I just do not feel bad for someone who enters into a deal without knowing what they are doing beforehand. I bought a house $70,000 below market value from old people with no real estate agent. They never even had the place appraised. I gave them what they were asking. I sold the house, and made quite a bit of money. I knew the real estate market, and I knew I was getting a killer deal. Am I supposed to feel bad? They got what they wanted, I got what I wanted. The point is they could have sold it for as much as I did, but they didn't because they didn't know what they were doing. It was never my moral obligation to coach them through selling their house..... THEY SET THE TERMS OF THE SALE.... I WAS THE BENEFACTOR...

 

I was just at the bank cashing my check and making a deposit when I saw the guy in front of me put a handful of half dollars on the counter. $9.50. I was next and asked the teller for them.Of the 19 coins, 1 was a Proof Bicentenial and 1 is a 1969-D ,40%silver.I saw all of these coins before i left the counter as they were not wrapped. On the way to my truck I saw the same guy sitting in his car, It looked like he was maybe figuring out his bills ? I knew he was the person who got face value for these coins and I knew I made out a few bucks. THEN I read this thread. Did I knowingly (after the fact) take advantage of the situation by not telling him about his deposit ? Am I an s.o.b. for not tapping on his window ? Am I any different than the OP ? Has anyone else had this happen ? Be it at a bank or a store or a gas station ? Because I have some knowledge do I also have an obligation to inform everyone in every situation ? Would I have acted differently if He was a little old lady ? Don't know, Do you ?...........John

 

I'm not sure where you're going with this example. We both agree it isn't going to happen, so why are we discussing it?

Morality need not be objective. But my set standard is "tell the truth, and the whole truth, in transactions."

In that example the seller is explicitly saying they wish to remain ignorant. That's another example that is not going to happen in the real world, but if it did, yeah, you are doing nothing immoral by buying them.

And purposefully keeping them in the dark for your own benefit is immoral.

 

dready very similar situation happened a few months back but on a larger scale guy a few people infront had a bag of silver dollars about 150 face value worth. No one said anything to him odd thing is though that the teller wouldn't let me buy them since they weren't rolled...which i found strange but i guess thats their policy?

 

How do you determine when you are the beneficiary of positive karma?

Can positive karma come in the form of good fortune?

How are you so sure your morals are the ones that apply to karma?

Is withholding knowledge a precursor to being the recipient of bad karma?

Or are you laying down a baseless claim?

 

1. Then the dealer standard does apply???? Now you are going back on what you said before.

2. The same scenario applies to the unwitting bank customer... By not speaking up or asking any questions they are selling(depositing) a roll of coins at face value.

I can no longer argue this point because you have pretty much unwittingly agreed with me... Good Day!

 

A bit off topic but....


She turned me into a newt!


I got better.

 

What are you smoking tonight?

 

I guess to make it in terms of black and white Richie, from now on buy every roll of halves that comes in sight unseen. Look at them a week later, if they are silver they are now a good find, and people will congratulate you. If you want to be villified, seeing a customer in the branch with a roll of halves, come out from behind that counter, take the coins and knock the customer to the ground. Open the roll, if they coins are silver, take them whilst kicking said customer for being too stupid to know what a silver coin is, if the coins aren't silver, throw them at said customer and kick them for not bringing you a better selection of silver coins. In this way we will all know whether or not to cheer you or boo.

 

OK, now I understand...I'll try that next time. :kewl:

 

we are wasting our time. people are confusing numismatics with cheating and swindling. swindling and cheating and ethics dont go together

 

right a lilttle higher than even me

 

OK, let me give you an example that did happen and see if I was "immoral" that time too.

Several years ago, when I was probably 15 or 16, I visited a coin shop regularly ran by an older dealer named Al. I would go there all the time and just hang out with the regulars and listen to their stories...they were an all an older semi-retired bunch and they really liked me. Al's selection wasn't the best, but it was fun to spend time there and he let me dig through his new stuff before he put it out so I could get first shot at everything.

One day, I was looking at a couple of proof sets he had in his case, one of them was a 1979 set. I don't remember the price he had on it as it was several years ago (it was probably $6 or $7 based on what my old 1999 Red Book lists). That was the value of a Type 1 set. I noticed it was a Type 2 set (worth then, according to Red Book $60), so I bought that along with a few other things for the listed price.

The dealer, Al, didn't know it was a Type 2 set and I did. Al was a good friend of mine (he was until the day he retired), but I didn't point out his because that's what he was asking for it. Because he was a dealer was cherypicking this set for 10% of its value moral? I don't have a problem with it because he got what he was asking. The same would be true if I bought it from someone on the street. Now, if he had listed it as a Type 2 and I had convinced him it was a Type 1, that's a little different (wither it was a dealer or just some guy).

Oh, just to point it out...I still have that set and according to Red Book (which isn't a great price guide but it just as an example)...a 1979 Type 1 Proof Set is worth $8 while a Type 2 lists for $130).

 

They're going to tell you that cherrypicking from a dealer is okay because he should know better. Either that or that you're a horrible, soulless, mean spirited person, who would step over his own grandmother for a culled trime.

 

...or both.

 

RichieB, I hope when you become a dentist you dont start taking out the gold fillings from your patients.

 

I guess I mixed up someone else's statement about karma with your statement about what goes around comes around....

I don't smoke the whacky tabacy though..... just trying to provoke thought

 

The only thing that would have made that dealer mad would be you educating him on he fact that you bought a type 2 set for type one prices... If you cherrypick something from someone the best thing to do is stay quiet about it. If you do that nobody is worse off, and you still got a good deal.

Part of the fun is being able to no more than someone else, and being able to get good deals or make money because of it.