Not shocked, but disappointed...

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by jester3681, Jul 5, 2016.

  1. jester3681

    jester3681 Exonumia Enthusiast

    PCGS must have gotten (97 - Environmental Details) stuck in the copy machine this weekend, because the group of three Fugios I submitted all got hit. Ugh...

    Now, that said, I knew one would definitely come back details - my 17-WW was pretty crusty, but I wanted it certified, and TrueViewed, and all the other benefits of giving it a tiny plastic house.

    The other two were both "Raised Rim" Fugios, a 12-Z and a 19-Z. Both had porosity, which I felt was market acceptable for the expected grades (incidentally, the grades received were all on point with my expectations). I guess my stance was, "yes, PCGS, there is some roughness on the flan, but a very good coin that's over 200 years old is likely to exhibit this." Their stance was, "na-na na-na boo-boo." ;)

    I hope the TrueView pics hit soon - I'm interested to get a feeling from other collectors about this. Have you folks been similarly held to strict standards?

    I guess I'm in the EAC net grade mentality when I look at a coin and don't see the forest for the trees...
    Paul M. likes this.
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  3. Skyman

    Skyman Well-Known Member

    That sucks. I look forward to seeing the pix.
    jester3681 likes this.
  4. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    The more I read and study about grading, the more I get confused these days.:confused:
  5. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    I hope you'll follow up here so I can see what they look like.
  6. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    That is probably true, but doesn't make you by definition "wrong." Looked at from only a slightly different angle, TPG's are "pie in the sky" idealists who are unwilling to believe what they're holding is 200+ years old, so far from reality that they could only be ground-engaged if you threw them off a building, and even then for only a millisecond.

    Now that I think of it....
    jester3681 likes this.
  7. mac266

    mac266 Well-Known Member

    Don't forget TPGs go strictly off technical grade. The "net grade" process used by EAC accounts for flaws that virtually every copper from that era is going to have. That's why few EACers bother with slabs; they study the coins enough to rely on their own expertise.

    Remember with technical grading, ANY porosity whatsoever is evidence of corrosion that has been removed. Er go, it will details / genuine grade from a TPG.
  8. mas4492

    mas4492 Junior Member

    I'm sympathetic to your grades. A 97 always seems to me as more expensive than a straight grade.
    That said, consider the position of the TPG. Their inception was to provide a standard for 'blind' selling. Now if a potential buyer received the coin and went ballistic due to the porosity they viewed as environmental damage. The TPG would be responsible for restitution. There's a almost 'loco parentis' role they play.
  9. jester3681

    jester3681 Exonumia Enthusiast

    Pictures are up:

    Newman 17-WW - This is the one I knew would come back as a details coin, but the rarity of this die pair (Kessler R-H7) gave me reason to get it certified.

    Newman 12-Z - Also a rare one (Kessler R-H7), this one was the biggest disappointment. I have no idea what the shine around the date is. I do not recall it being there in hand.

    81116933_Large.jpg Newman 19-Z - The most common of the raised rim die pairs. I had higher hopes for this one...
    dwhiz and Seattlite86 like this.
  10. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    still, attractive
    jester3681 likes this.
  11. Vroomer2

    Vroomer2 Active Member

    I think the last one is the best.

    My Fugio is horrid. Down right despicable. Not worthy of any pics. BUT, I got it for free from a friend.

  12. mas4492

    mas4492 Junior Member

    Oh yeah...I got this one in the '50s. Kinda felt sorry for it:
    dwhiz and Vroomer2 like this.
  13. Vroomer2

    Vroomer2 Active Member

    Oh that's nicer than mine...
  14. mas4492

    mas4492 Junior Member

    Coins or not. I gotta love the wit.
  15. Mickey in PDX

    Mickey in PDX Member

    In looking at mas's fugio, I was thinking 'its kinda pretty all worn down' and also 'that is a pitiful condition of a coin'. No disrespect intended to another's coins, but what a hobby we have, when we retrieve these guys from being ignored, melted, or thrown away, and then give them a place of respect. It is good to be a collector.
    talkcoin, Vroomer2 and jester3681 like this.
  16. Fletcher

    Fletcher Junior Member

    Here is my 12-Z and 19-Z ... I wish I had a 17-WW ;-)

    SSG_Gonzo and Eric White like this.
  17. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    This shows that you may not know the difference between a technical grade and a market grade as the TPGS claim to do by putting a VALUE on the coin.

    From my observations, the majority of circulated old copper will usually show some signs of "Environmental Damage."
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