Featured Not ancient: Wire coins of Peter I - I couldn't collect just one

The lowest priced coin I got at the Fredericksburg show was a wire kopeck of Peter I of Russia. Oddly, within a week before I won another on eBay (for twice the price!) which arrived while I was at the show. The two make an interesting comparison of an issue where the dies were well over twice the size of the flans.

To make the point of the dies being large, the image below shows the two reverses overlapping showing parts of six lines of legend. Perhaps if I had access to enough of these, I could piece together the rest of each line but this gives the idea. This site did it in ten coins:
http://www.calgarycoin.com/reference/peterwiremoney/peterwiremoney.htm

While I find several coins which are year dated by the seller (1696-1717), I do not understand the system used. My second one was listed as 1699 (?). Finding coins with the date clear and the horseman on flan will take some luck. Can anyone provide a link that details the dating system?

The last image is a coin I have had for a while that would seem to add little since its tiny flan shows so little of the central part but it is interesting to me in the form of the T (in ETP) with drooping tails that is not like what we usually expect of a T. All three of these coins weigh a hair under 0.3g demonstrating the accuracy that could be achieved by cutting lengths of wire from a spool of known gauge. The last coin is twice as thick as the other two compensating for the smaller diameter.


Post your Peter wires.

 

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wow, those are very cool ... I've never seen those before (fascinating)

The Calgary Coin link is very cool (those crafty Canadians, eh?)

=> So far Doug, I've liked all 4 of your new coins (please keep 'em comin')

Cheers

 

Thats neat

 

I have just one and have posted it before. Doug, I think it was you who pointed me to the CalgaryCoin site when I did. The graph paper in my photos is 1/4" squares.



Rob

 

That is a nice one, Rob. It shows more of the reverse lower right than mine and is dated. The seller I saw at Fredericksburg had several of these but most were really terribly centered on the obverse. I guess if you collect these you have to get over wanting heads on your horses and riders.

 

http://www.metaldetectingworld.com/convert_cyrillic_date_julian.shtml
This page helps with the date. I believe that makes Rob's a 1698 and confirms mine as 1699 as advertised.

 

nice, love the overlap pic. i need a peter i, but i am going to get an other ivan iv...but want one that has the portion of the legend mine is missing.

i hope you don't mind if i invite ivan iv to the wire party..

 

Cool beans Doug, I don't recall having seen your wire coins before (although I remember them being mentioned).

I love the photo overlay! Keep up the good work.

 

the day DS started this thread i bid on a small wire money lot and won. i picked up the missing portion of my ivan iv coin above, and got this "chunk" of a peter i.



Tsar Peter I Alekseevich
AR wire kopek
1682-1721
(i'm guessing on the date, the date would be shown below the horse...you can see portion of it on the some of the coins above. the reverse reads " "Tsar and Grand Prince Peter Alekseevich of Entire Russia". according to wikipedia, he held that title during these dates).
10x7 mm
0.3 g

here's mine pretty well matched up with DS's first coin..



here's the basic full set up...



interesting page on wire money..

http://www.metaldetectingworld.com/russian_coins_peter_i.shtml

DS...look at this page for specific dating details..

http://www.metaldetectingworld.com/convert_cyrillic_date_julian.shtml

 

here's my new ivan iv with a more full reverse legend,but more worn (or weakly struck).

"КНSЬ / ВЕЛIК / IВАN" ("Grand Prince Ivan").



ivan iv
ar wire denga
1535-1547
moscow mint
10x13 mm
0.5g

 

What is a wire coin exactly?

 

they took a chunk of metal wire and cut it to weight, then hammered it in the old school way.

 

thanks chrsmat! I feel kinda stupid now

 

... don't worry too much, for I didn't know either => we're both stupid

 

I collect Russian coins, but mostly 19th and early 20th century. Somewhere along the way I did pick up a small hoard of these wire pieces that I paid what seemed like a ridiculously low amount for. And in a box they have sat, for about a decade now.

 

If you study Russian history, you know that Peter was very interested in bringing old Russia into the modern age. This is shown well with his ending those little 'ancient' looking wires and replacing them with a large series of modern types made on modern machines.

 

Peter the Great by Robert Massie is a novelized history - a fantastic read though.