NORFED Founder Convicted Of Minting Liberty Dollars

I agree that he could have avoided all the unnecessary trouble and legal expense. The U.S. puts $1 on their silver eagle, $50 on their gold eagle and $100 on their platinum eagle.

NORFED puts maximum prices on its bullion and counter currency.

Good article at Lew Rockwell today and a long thread at www.quatloos.com.

I remember asking JJ VanGrover the bullion dealer about Von Nothaus before he died and he was quite angry about that type of "sovereign", "paytriot" or what have you.

 

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Hi Jason, and welcome to the forum.

von NotHaus ("vN") intentionally used those elements of the ASE so that he could manufacture his own Central Bank. If he didn't include those elements, he wouldn't be able to accomplish his goal of infusing an alternative currency into the US exchange system.

Without treading too far into the legality of things, it's possible that the US Government wouldn't have been successful in the charges brought against vN had he not opted to print a currency, as well. Though that is speculation.

As for ownership... I think it goes along with every other case of counterfeiting in the United States, the sale of counterfeited goods (or possession with the intent to sell) is illegal. That would probably be interpretted as owning more than a certain number of the item in question. I think, and again this is with no intent of being construed as legal advice or legal interpretation, that the US Government will eventually release via sale the NORFed currency (Liberty Dollar coins and Liberty Dollar notes) with some sort of "counterfeit" or "replica" marking. After all, the seized property has a value, and those with outstanding orders might claim rights on them.

Again, those who were early adopters could be charged with fraud against those who came along at a later date, since the first group (those with the lowest face : bullion ratio dollars) had motivation to distribute the currency and support vN in his attempt to subvert the US Mint.

In related events, I'm finding eBay hilarious with respect to this situation. One seller has both BIN and auction based sales for the $25 MSRP (which VN added only after NORFed was shutdown the first time for counterfeiting) Liberty Dollars.

Auction -- at $50

http://cgi.ebay.com/RON-PAUL-999-Si...080?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item56432274e8

BIN -- at $29.99

http://cgi.ebay.com/RON-PAUL-999-Si...980?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5643228424

Why folks would bid $50 completely floors me... especially when the guy has more than 10 available for current, immediate purchase at $29.99... for HALF OUNCE silver rounds.

So, without pretending to be an attorney or judge (and police officers do this EVERY TIME that they give any legal advice beyond Miranda rights), I think it's now illegal to possess or distribute anything created by NORFed or Liberty Services connected with the Liberty Dollar. It might be unlikely that the US government will prosecute anyone not recorded as a currency distribution office, however, since they wouldn't really have records of third party transactions.

Now, the thing I have a question about (and we won't know the answer until court records are investigated):

Did vendors require payment in Liberty Dollars OR give change for US currency in Liberty Dollars? If either occurred, those vendors could also be accomplice parties to vN in his criminal action of counterfeiting and distribution. It's entirely possible that the case was brought against vN as a result of his hubris and arrogance. The list of vendors who accepted the Liberty Dollar in exchange probably was approached by the US Government performing undercover transactions. If even one vendor gave Liberty Dollars as "change," they would have been arrested and threatened to be charged with counterfeiting. It's possible that this occurred a few times, and the Government offered plea bargains to anyone willing to testify against vN in the larger case.