Nice image details.

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Everett Guy, Jan 19, 2021.

  1. Everett Guy

    Everett Guy Well-Known Member

    This coin has decent image details. For $160 it doesn't seem to be overpriced in my opinion. My questiom is, this considered a rare'er or harder to get ruler? Screenshot_20210119-180437_Samsung Internet.jpg
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  3. PlanoSteve

    PlanoSteve Supporter! Supporter

    Not particularly, however, this issue was during the time of the major sewer construction project, hence, the clothes pin on his nose! :D:p:p:p:joyful::joyful::joyful:;)
  4. Restitutor

    Restitutor Well-Known Member

    I wouldn’t feel bad paying $160 for that coin at all. Mint state quality and the images on the coin are eye catching.
    Everett Guy likes this.
  5. RichardT

    RichardT Well-Known Member

    Denarii of Caracalla are very common, they are not rare at all. They are also relatively commonly found in an excellent state of preservation.

    This particular type (RIC 226) is scarce, apparently.

    It's an attractive coin but I would not consider it mint state. or even Extremely Fine. Die break on obverse near Caracalla's nose, evidence of being struck with a worn reverse die, etc.

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    ...Except, looks nice, you got the money, dude, Why Not?
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  7. Restitutor

    Restitutor Well-Known Member

    Interesting second paragraph. My understanding is that Mint State implies the coin is as it was when first struck. So the worn reverse, and die break occurring at the coins inception wouldn’t hurt the grade?
    +VGO.DVCKS likes this.
  8. RichardT

    RichardT Well-Known Member

    My understanding of ancient coin grading, subjective as it is, is that it goes from
    FDC->MS->EF->VF etc.

    To me, Extremely Fine implies a coin with no visible wear at all, with all details sharp as can be. Mint State is above that, so it should be the same, but with additional conditions, like no encrustations, evident mint luster etc.

    If the definition of Mint State is simply a coin as it is when first struck... by extension it will also include heavily off-struck coins, coins struck with extremely worn dies, etc.

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    Wow, between you and @RichardT, there's Lots going on up in this house.
    Mostly where definitions are concerned.
    What is 'mint state'? Can it refer to a coin which is as struck, independently of the dies that gave it birth? (...Sorry, needing some Al Green after this.)
    ...And so forth. Sudden business elsewhere.
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
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  10. Everett Guy

    Everett Guy Well-Known Member

    I thought about grabbing it...
  11. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    This explains why it is quite possible for a coin in VF to be better than one in Mint State. There used to be a term I rarely see anymore: Fleur de coin. This meant not only Mint State but perfect in every way to include centering and surfaces. We also see 'as struck' which usually carries an overtone of 'not very good'. Hand struck coins do not have the consistent repeatability of machine made coins so many coins left the mint in less than desirable condition. We used to downgrade coin for problems other than wear but NGC decided to grade coins based only on wear and rely on their 1 to 5 out of 5 ratings to show other problems. I consider this Caracalla to be a better than average type from a very common emperor and in EF condition based on wear but with a few 'issues' that would reduce the bid levels on a coin. I believe it will be worth $160 someday if not today. I would be happy to have the coin but not at the price. That explains why you have the coin and I don't. Whenever you buy a coin you are saying that it was worth more to you than it was to the guy who sold it (or he would have sold it to someone else for more). My closest is below.
    It is just VF (VF+ if you are being kind) and lacks the second figure. RIC rates both as 'S' but the Reka Devnia hoard had 61 of mine and 19 of yours making yours 3x as scarce. I paid $58 for mine and, considering all things, I don't see yours as all that badly overpriced. I hope you will enjoy the coin for many years to come.
  12. Curtisimo

    Curtisimo the Great(ish) Supporter

    MS, EF, VF etc. for ancient coins can all be summed up and lumped together as BS. Static coin grades for hand made pieces of art are nonsense. I vote MS details for the Mona Lisa and good VF for the Farnese Hercules. :wacky::D

    In all seriousness @Everett Guy , I just say use your eyes, my friend. To my eyes this is a nice coin of a common emperor with great eye appeal. I don’t think it fits my current interest enough for me to buy it at $160 for my collection but wouldn’t think that a person who did was getting ripped off either.

    Here are a couple of my Caracallas
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
  13. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    Caracalla isn't a rare emperor but tends to be rather desirable with prices seeming to exceed similar conditions and denominations from other contemporary rulers.
    I don't have too many, but these two are probably my favorites.

    A gift from Secret Saturn 2019
    Caracalla RIC 312d (2020_11_18 03_38_31 UTC).jpeg
    This one obtained from Tenbobbit, and evidently a very interesting type:
    IMG_E7241 (2020_11_18 03_38_31 UTC).JPG
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