Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by tmoneyeagles, Mar 12, 2009.



  1. NGC

  2. PCGS

  1. PersianGuy


    I try to stay with PCGS because NGC allows you to register PCGS coins on their Set Registry, and that way I can have coins on both Registries (PCGS & NGC). If that makes any sense lol
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  3. Breakdown

    Breakdown Member

    PCGS. For what I collect, they are more consistent. I may be one of the few, but I do like the new NGC holders.

    CHAMELEON Toned Coin Enthusiast

    Who's Bernie? I'm Martin.

    I could write a book about all the problems I've had with NGC. NGC slabs more AT coins than any other TPG. I've seen 30+ AT coins that they graded, and gave a * designation to at least a dozen of them. They don't give *'s to a whole lot of coins that deserve them though. They don't know how to grade either. I sent in two nickels in the same submission, and one came back as MS-66 & the other was MS-64. The one that was graded MS-66 was actually more like MS-63/64, and the one graded MS-64 was more like MS-67. I compared the coins side by side and the grades made no sense at all. I've cracked out about a dozen NGC coins and sent them back, and not a single one came back with the same grade. They have no consistency whatsoever. I spoke with one of the so called "expert" graders there and he told me that they graded a Morgan dollar I sent in MS-63* because it had so much eye appeal, even though it was more like MS-61/62. He said that had the coin been white, it never would have been graded that high. WTF? Isn't that what the * designation is for? So if you send in a coin with dark toning that is really MS-68, they'll grade it MS-64 because it doesn't have great eye appeal? I couldn't believe the guy just came right out and told me they knowingly graded my coin incorrectly because they liked the toning on it. NGC is a joke. I could give you 100 other reasons why NGC sucks, but I don't have the time to type it all.

    PCGS is much better at giving a coin a grade that is close to the condition of the coin, but they still lack a good deal of consistency as well. I've seen a lot of PCGS coins in MS-64 holders that are actually a much higher grade than other coins in MS-66 holders. Because of a highly skilled coin doctor that has recently (past year or two) dumped a large amount of AT coins into the market, PCGS has become ridiculously tough on toned coins. They are real quick to bag toners because of this guy's coins. He does a damn good job of AT'ing, and PCGS hasn't figured out how to tell the difference between his doctoring and the real deal yet. Both NGC and PCGS have graded a lot of this guy's coins. NGC gave a lot of them stars too.

    I've never used ANACS, but I think they are the best. Their grades are usually pretty consistent with the condition of the coins they hold (more so than NGC or PCGS in my opinion). I can only think of 1 AT coin I've ever seen in an ANACS holder, and it was one of the real old small holders. I've seen 30+ AT coins in NGC holders, and close to a dozen in PCGS holders. That could be because they grade more coins than ANACS, but having seen only 1 in an ANACS holder gives ANACS a lot more credibility in my book. I've read hundreds of posts in various forums where people complained about the results of their submissions with NGC & PCGS, but I can't think of ever hearing one complaint about ANACS. They only charge $10 bucks a coin, and are more consistent with their standards of grading from what I've seen.

    The other guys charge close to $20 per coin, and there's no telling how they will grade them. I've had them come back graded 2 points too high, and up to 3-4 too low with NGC. Also, I've had way too many NT coins get bagged with NGC & PCGS (or coins with no problems get bagged for reasons that did not apply to the coin). NGC took a half dollar out of a government sealed cello and bagged it for "improper cleaning". Say what?! I spoke to the person that graded it and he told me to send it back and he'd look at it again. I did, and then he bagged it for "artificial toning". Like I said before, I could keep going on and on about NGC. I'll wrap it up now though.
  5. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot there is no spoon

    Grading is subjective. Anyone who expects consistency from subjective judgments is setting themselves up for disappointment, IMO.

    Personally, I could care less between the two companies (for all but RD/RB copper) because their opinions often vary wildly from my own opinion -- and in the end it is my opinion that matters.

  6. boxerchip

    boxerchip Runnin' Buffalo

    +1 mike! like I said I try to buy on the coin not the holder but ive def had some NGC coins that I think to my self... wtf how did this score pf70... I would give it a 67.

    IMHO the ABSOLUTE best grading company is ICCS, I buy all the ICCS maple privys I come across and have NEVER been disappointed. their 67 is NGC and PCGS's 70. Amazingly conservative! 5 thumbs up, 10 stars, cant say enough good things about them, just wish they had a website.
  7. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    NGC or


    Which do I like to buy?

    Like the grading?

    Hate the grading?

    more conservative grading?

    More liberal grading?

    easier to get CAC'd?

    Higher grades for Toning?
    Lower grades for toning?

    How could anyone vote on this question?
  8. 900fine

    900fine doggone it people like me

    Ohhhhhhhhhh.... kay.......

    No website, eh ? :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:
  9. regandon

    regandon Senior Member

    I spoke to the person that graded it and he told me to send it back and he'd look at it again.

    I've had many coins graded by NGC. I never knew that you could talk to the grader that graded your coin. If the grader did not grade it the way you think it should have been, then why have him grade it again ?
  10. 900fine

    900fine doggone it people like me

    Personally, I have had much faster turnaround time with NGC. I feel they are more consistent.

    I have had excellent customer service from both.

    NGC also gets a big edge by giving submission privileges to ANA members. PCGS membership fees are steep.

    Another biggie... variety attribution. NGC charges $10, PCGS $24. Ouch !
  11. boxerchip

    boxerchip Runnin' Buffalo

    Read up on them man.... I promise you, they are not like American grading companies that do the eye appeal bull****, they grade coins like its a science. Most conservative, best grading company around (again imho) if I could send all my coins to them I would.

    ICCS contact info:
    2010 Yonge Street
    Ste 202
    Toronto, Ontorio
    Canada M4S 1Z9
    Phone 416-488-8620
    Fax 416-488-6371

    If you would like, when I get home from work ill post some high res pics of some coins they graded and you can judge them for yourself. They blow PCGS and NGC out of the water.
  12. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Hmmmmm - every single thing you have said about NGC I have heard 100 others say about PCGS. What I have always found more striking though are the people who say these things about both companies. It's just that they say them more about PCGS than they do NGC.
  13. buzzard

    buzzard Member


    I voted NGC, Everytime I have a question they answer it promptly and very courteous. I have some PCGS coins some coins look better on different holders. This is my first year of getting coins graded and NGC has been excellent. :hail:

    CHAMELEON Toned Coin Enthusiast

    Normally you can not speak to the graders. I was furious with what I got back though. I sent a sealed proof set with a toned half dollar. That was the only coin in the set I wanted graded, and the only one on the invoice. They graded every other coin in the set and added it to the bill. The only coin I wanted them to grade, they bagged for improper cleaning. The coin would have been worth more if it was left in the sealed set. I included a single AT coin in my entire submission of 30+ coins just to see if they really were as clueless as I thought they were. They graded it, but bagged 13 or 14 coins that were 100% natural without a doubt. They had been grading tons of AT coins that were being sold on ebay by a guy in Keller, TX, and I had to show them what to look for. They charged me more than $300 for coins that got bagged and shouldn't have, as well as the 4 proof coins that I did not want graded. I raised holy hell with the vice president and spoke to the grader about some of the coins he remembered seeing. That was the 3rd time I had a major problem with them, and the last time they'll be seeing any of my coins.

    CHAMELEON Toned Coin Enthusiast

    You got the right idea...always buy the coin and not the holder. I don't pay extra for plastic, but most people do. I bought a SLQ on ebay a long time ago that was NGC MS-66, but I'd have graded it AU-55 at best. There was wear on the shield, and not all the dots were visible. I was dumbfounded. After that, the plastic became meaningless to me.
  16. Mark Feld

    Mark Feld Rare coin dealer

    You say you've never used ANACS, and yet you think they're the best - amazing. I would think that actually utilizing the services of a company would be a key ingredient/basis in determining how good or bad they were. And that's even if you have viewed a large number of the coins they have graded.

    And as for your rants about NGC - anyone who makes such sweeping and exaggerated statements, and while doing so, says the company doesn't know how to grade, has no credibility, as far as I'm concerned. Perhaps you are not as expert as you think you are, and might actually be wrong some of the times you disagree with NGC. In fact, I'd bet on that.
  17. Vess1

    Vess1 CT SP VIP

    I like NGC slabs better. I really like their special labels with specific graphics for some coins, and the star designation. Most of them look really sharp and add to the coins.

    If there's a coin I really want and it's in a PCGS slab, I have no reservations about buying it. I have a few. Mostly NGC though.

    I haven't compared enough graded, slabbed coins of the same type from either company to give a valuable opinion on how consistant either of them grade one way or the other. Most here probably haven't.
  18. rzage

    rzage What Goes Around Comes Around .

    I used to like PCGS , Though I always looked at the coin first then the slabs , lately it seems like I've bought all NGC , probably because they just happened to have graded them like I've learned here buy the coin not the slab . I definately would never buy a coin because it's in a prettier slab or better quality slab , unless the coins are identicle .
  19. Catbert

    Catbert Evil Cat

    I have only two comments to share:

    I hate the NGC prongs, but if it was a special coin, I'd still buy it.

    I prefer PCGS due to the above, but also for the perceived better resale value.
  20. GoldCoinLover

    GoldCoinLover Senior Member

    Its a mixed bag. I don't like the prongs either, I do like the idea of being able to see the edge of the coin. I like PCGS's holder's better because they are clear, and they sell better, as well they seem to be more strict on US gold.

    However, I like NGC's holders too. They have put great lengths into anti-counterfeiting the holders. They will also image every coin submitted to them now, which is a great idea in my book. PCGS only released a statement on the counterfeit of their slabs, they haven't seem to actually have made a new better slab like NGC.

    If I had a choice to send a coin into NGC or PCGS for US gold I would choose PCGS.
  21. 900fine

    900fine doggone it people like me

    Hmmm. Not like those primitive Americans. But at least the American TPGs have websites ! :D
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