NGC vs. PCGS

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by tmoneyeagles, Mar 12, 2009.

?

NGC or PCGS?

  1. NGC

    50.0%
  2. PCGS

    50.0%
  1. Thender

    Thender Senior Member

    Can't answer as I don't have any...
     
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. HandsomeToad

    HandsomeToad Urinist

  4. WLhalves

    WLhalves Member

    The common denominator is the coin. The plastic home of said coins can be helpful if your are in this hobby for points, or you want to get a higher price for a completed set! These plastic covered coins can be used to train the eye for better or worse depending if the coin was accurately graded! NGC or PCGS really makes no difference they are in the top 2 grading services available the first being dependent on who you ask! The bottom line is we as collectors have to be able to grade the coin to the best of our ability, there are no short cuts in this hobby it is all about time and experience! The more you study the more you know, always ask questions, and above all stay open minded! JMHO (h = humble )

    BTW I vote PCGS hands down I make more money on the sets!
     
  5. schatzy

    schatzy ~Roosie Fanatic~

    I also like NGC and have never submitted to PCGS!!

    I also don't like PCGS because of this little stunt!!
    I think they are screwing collectors, with obama label!!
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot there is no spoon

    "Which is your favorite, NGC or PCGS"

    Both have advantages and disadvantages. Frankly, I could care less. I collect coins, not plastic.

    That said, there are a few disadvantages around collecting NGC coins in one of my areas of specialty (RB copper), and also overall they tend to fetch lower prices, so if I had to make a choice, I'd probably choose PCGS. Then again, I love to buy coins in NGC (or ANACS) holders as I can often get them more attractively priced.

    But really, I don't see much of a difference between the two in the coins I collect, and I really try to focus on the coin not the holder.

    Respectfully...Mike
     
  7. tmoneyeagles

    tmoneyeagles Indian Buffalo Gatherer

    schatzy I'm right with you!
     
  8. rzage

    rzage What Goes Around Comes Around .

    I always liked PCGS , but now it really doesn't matter if I like the coin it could be in a SGS slab , but as to your question they are now about equal in my book .
    rzage
     
  9. tmoneyeagles

    tmoneyeagles Indian Buffalo Gatherer

    it is supposed to be buy the coin not the slab, but it is hard to do that sometimes
     
  10. spock1k

    spock1k King of Hearts

    hahahah
     
  11. spock1k

    spock1k King of Hearts

    well said. we are here to collect coins not plastic. i wonder if anyone will pay for empty slabs
     
  12. tmoneyeagles

    tmoneyeagles Indian Buffalo Gatherer

    well pcgs takes the lead!
     
  13. WLhalves

    WLhalves Member

    An empty slab a bum coin, sounds like a recipe for a scammer.
     
  14. Scarsdale coins

    Scarsdale coins New Member


    Coin grading survey

    Responding to hobby concerns about perceived wide variances in the grading standards between different rare coin certification services, the Professional Numismatists Guild (PNG) and the Industry Council for Tangible Assets (ICTA) asked their members for their professional opinions. PNG is a group of dealers with a restricted membership based on time in the profession and the value of their inventory. ICTA is a trade organization that lobbies on behalf of the numismatic industry in legislative matters. Survey respondents were asked to rate seven different grading services on a ten-point scale to evaluate 11 different criteria, from grading accuracy to the quality of the holder in which certified coins were housed. The points were weighted differently among the categories, from as high as 20 percent for each of two categories of grading accuracy (Uncirculated and circulated) to 2 percent each for turn-around time and quality of certified holder. The voting scale ranged from "unacceptable" at the low end to "outstanding" at the high end.
    • Unacceptable: 0-1
    • Poor: 2-3
    • Average: 4-6
    • Superior: 7-8
    • Outstanding: 9-10
    PNG and ICTA each sent the survey to its professional members during August 2002 and ICTA crosschecked mailings from PNG to avoid duplication. Although over 300 people received the survey, only 151 responses had been returned to Armen Vartian, PNG's legal counsel and designated recipient prior to the close of the survey on September 16. From those, eleven responses were disqualified as one was marked as from ICTA as a group, not from an individual; two respondents were unknown to PNG or ICTA; one was affiliated with a grading service; one was submitted with the numbers illegible; five were duplicates from owners of one or more firms; and one respondent was not a PNG member. Respondents had to print their names and provide signatures, meaning that all forms turned in anonymously were also rejected. PNG and ICTA members were asked to consider the following criteria for the seven grading services in the survey.
    • Grading accuracy (Mint State 60+ and Proof 60+)
    • Grading accuracy (AG-3 to AU-58)
    • Ability to detect altered, repaired damaged, cleaned and counterfeit coins
    • Accuracy of all (type and variety) attributions
    • Grading guarantees
    • General marketability
    • Availability of pricing information
    • Customer service by phone, print and Internet
    • Cost for service provided
    • Turn-around time
    The final tally of the survey indicated that no grading service was ranked overall as "outstanding," but one company was listed as "unacceptable." Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC) and Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS) were both listed overall as "superior," the second highest ranking on the scale. Accu-Grade (ACG) was listed overall as "unacceptable," the lowest-ranking category on the scale. ANACS and Independent Coin Grading Company (ICG) were ranked overall as "average." PCI Coin Grading Service (PCI) and Sovereign Entities Grading Service (SEGS) were ranked overall as "poor."
    Survey results disputed

    The Survey results were tabulated by PNG with respect to each individual criterion, and also overall based upon weighting factors established by PNG/ICTA. The weighting factors were disclosed in advance to respondents." PNG has retained copies of all survey responses, and originals are being held by PNG's Legal Counsel. The release of the survey's results brought instant cries of foul from low-rated services and claims of superiority by those accorded the highest marks.
    SEGS

    Larry Briggs, owner of SEGS, said, "It's political blackball to try to run the lower-echelon companies that haven't paid for games to go ahead and get out of the business." Diane Hager, owner of ASA Accugrade, said: "I don't take it seriously. I don't think they speak for the coin industry. I question their methods. There was no reason to have a survey. Everyone knew what the results would be, and I'm sure there was other motivation. The whole purpose was to discredit my product, my company. I think people with a brain are going to understand. Who really cares what PNG thinks? Who are they? Their pockets are big and deep and that's what this is about. PNG is a self-serving, elitist organization, and I question the accuracy of their results. I'd like to know who these 151 dealers are and if they've ever used a service other than PCGS or NGC. It's very disheartening when you've built a company for 18 years and have such a dedicated group of people."
    Martin Pierce, attorney for SEGS, said in a written statement: "[W]e are absolutely convinced, even when stepping back and looking at it on a 'worst case scenario/most critical' basis, that the PNG/ICTA 'survey' does not accurately reflect SEGS's actual service and performance or its reputation in the marketplace." "Although SEGS, as well as others who entered the field after PCGS, NGC and ANACS, has had some problems with acceptance," he also said, "SEGS enjoys a steady stream of loyal and experienced numismatic clientele and a steady stream of coins coming through for grading and encapsulation. There have been few problems with general marketability, as evidenced by repeat customers who are happy with the service, product and prices realized for their coins." As areas in which SEGS excels, Pierce included "the best capsule in the business," inclusion of information and its accuracy, detection of fakes, detailed and accurate attributions and "fastest actual turnaround time."
    PCI

    Michael Heavener, PCI owner, said: "We believe the survey was statistically biased and not well-founded. There may be underlying reasons for the distortions, and we are examining those matters." Heavener had commented while the survey was being taken: "I object to any survey that is not fair in its representation of the collector and dealer alike. I also find it a huge conflict of interest that one of the major grading services pays PNG to be listed as its official grading service and their membership will make up almost 50 percent of the sample group." The official grading service Heavener was referring to is PCGS. "I suspect that a large percentage of the sample dealers accept coins from collectors, for a fee, to submit to dealer-only services," Heavener added. "This also creates the appearance of a conflict of interest."
    NGC

    By the skin of the teeth - being the only service rated "superior" on turn-around time - NGC could clamp onto title as top dog. "We are pleased with the results," NGC President Mark Salzberg said. "We fully expected the results. We're happy it came out this way. We felt all along that if this were done honestly and openly, we would come out on top. We've been working real hard here in all categories" - including, he especially noted, turn-around time.
    PCGS

    PCGS President Rick Montgomery said: "PCGS is obviously pleased and honored to receive the highest rankings in the recently conducted PNG survey. This survey reflected the views of the coin industry's top professionals, and while the PNG is for some reason choosing not to report the actual scores, we understand that PCGS had the highest score of all the grading services in seven out of the 10 categories. "We feel this survey validates the ongoing effort by PCGS to provide the numismatic community with the absolute finest quality product. The fact that we've graded 7.5 million coins with declared values over $10 billion, coupled with the fact that PCGS coins consistently sell for more at auctions and on the dealer trading networks than coins graded by other services, suggests the dealer and collecting community have long regarded PCGS as the service of choice."
    ANACS

    John McDonough, vice president and general manager of ANACS, said, "Considering that the survey was not scientifically valid, that the audience for the survey did not include our customer base, we are basically pleased with the results, especially in the area of counterfeit detection." ANACS was rated "superior" in that category, the only instance of a "superior" in any category for a company other than NGC or PCGS.
    ICG

    James Taylor, part owner and vice president of customer satisfaction of ICG, reserved public comment. :hammer:
     
  15. Scarsdale coins

    Scarsdale coins New Member

    still looks like a close race
     
  16. tmoneyeagles

    tmoneyeagles Indian Buffalo Gatherer

    NGC took the lead! :)
     
  17. Scarsdale coins

    Scarsdale coins New Member

    Perhaps its time I voted....LOL:mouth:
     
  18. Cloudsweeper99

    Cloudsweeper99 Treasure Hunter

    I buy slabbed coins but I don't submit them. Everybody at PCGS and NGC has more grading skill than I do, so it isn't easy to "buy the coin" and ignore the grade on the slab. So I prefer NGC because I feel like I can get a just-as-good or better coin for a lower price due to some lingering, unwaranted prejudice in favor of the old champ.

    Edit: But in the end, I probably own approximately the same number of coins slabbed by each of them.
     
  19. Scarsdale coins

    Scarsdale coins New Member

    That makes perfect sense, NGC suits you for your needs. I submit to PCGS because a majority of their coins will sell for a premium over a similar NGC graded coin. PCGS suits my needs better at this time.
     
  20. smullen

    smullen Coin Hoarder

    If I was looking at a coin say a 1921 S Morgan (or any coin really) and i had a choice between the two, I'd have to look at them both and see which coin I liked best...

    If not, I guess I'd look at my current collection, if the rest of my (insert coins) set was NGC I'd get it, if they were PCGS, I'd get that...
     
  21. tmoneyeagles

    tmoneyeagles Indian Buffalo Gatherer

    Well, someone up there asked, if anybody would pay for empty slab. I wouldn't, but I'd pay a premium on a coin in a slab
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page